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Spontaneous Poetics - 60 William Carlos Williams 4)

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William Carlos Williams was a practising doctor as well as being a poet


Allen Ginsberg, June 28 1976 class on Spontaneous Poetics at Naropa Institute, transcription of Allen's 1976 summer sessions continues. More on William Carlos Williams. Some of this material Allen has already been through in his extensive William Carlos Williams classes of the previous year (see for example here, here and here).

AG: So we're on (William Carlos) Williams, having focused, finally, on his conception of "No ideas but in things" and some literal fact (as part of his theory of "sticking close to the nose". [Allen reads Williams' poem "Smell" - "Oh strong-ridged and deeply hollowed/nose of mine, what will you not be smelling?..".."Must you have a part in everything?"- The phrase "close to the nose" comes from one of his essays, and when you get that close to your own breath, your own smell, your own senses, and that humorous (of) an acceptance of them, having agreed to work with the senses and having discovered the vastness and tolerance and expansiveness of the senses, the injudiciousness and (the) ecstasy of the senses, there comes a funny kind of self-acceptancy, characteristic of Americans, displayed in Whitman's "I celebrate myself, and sing myself/And what I assume you shall assume,/For every atom of me as good belongs to you/..I find no fat sweeter than sticks to my own bones/ I wear my hat indoors or out as I please." - (Williams') "Danse Russe" (is) complete self-incorporation [Allen reads Williams' "Danse Russe" - "if when my wife is sleeping/ and the baby and Kathleen are sleeping/ and the sun is a flame-white disc/ in silken mists/ above shining trees..."..."Who shall say I'm not/ the happy genius of my household?"] - So there's a psychological correlative to mindfulness, some development of self-reliance and a firm grasp of the ultimate reality of subjective sensation, as being no more than you can bargain for - you'd better settle for that, at least, as evidence to begin with, and then proceed(ing) with a poetics. But this is a sensation with the senses (the six senses at least), mental sensations.
What follows (next) is him...getting up in the morning, early, as a a doctor, and going out and looking around in the streets of northern (New) Jersey, turning his attention outside of himself. [Allen begins reading from "January Morning, A Suite" - "I've discovered that most of/ the beauties of travel are due to/the strange hours we keep to see them:/ the domes of the Church of. the Paulist Fathers in Weehawken/against a smoky dawn - the heart stirred -/ are beautiful as Saint Peters/approached after years of anticipation."] -  So he goes out into his own town and takes note of little delicate details  - "- and a horse with a green bed-quilt/ on his withers shaking his head/bared teeth and nozzle high in the air!" (that's very similar to Reznikoff's little details) - [Allen continues to quote from "January Morning" - (from VII) - " - and the worn,/ blue car rails (like the sky!)/ gleaming among the cobbles!" -  (from VIII) - "and the rickety ferry-boat "Arden"!..." - (from X) - "The young doctor is dancing with happiness..".."He notices/ the curdy barnacles and broken ice crusts/ left at the slip's base by the low tide/and thinks of summer and green/ shell-crusted ledges among/ the emerald eel-grass!" - and (from XIII) - "Work hard all your young days/ and they'll find you too some morning/ staring up under/your chiffonier at its warped/ bass-wood bottom and your soul - / out!/ - among the little sparrows/behind the shutter."] - So when he finally thinks of "What is soul?", what happens to death?, it's nothing but objective activity detail - sparrows out behind the shutter, instead of a horrific fantasy based on words that would give him a bum-kick. Except, also, the practical fantasy of, there he is, flopped down in his furnished room on the rug, his head rolled under the chiffonier (a large wooden chest with drawers where you keep your clothes) . Yes?

Student: What's "horrific"?

AG: Pardon me?

Student: Did you say "horrific"?

AG: Horrific. Horrible. Miltonic variant of "horrible" - "horrific". Nice word.  [Allen continues with the poem - (from XV) - "All this -/ was for you, old woman./I wanted to write a poem/ that you would understand./For what good is it to me/if you can't understand it?/ But you got to try hard -/ But -/ Well, you know how/the young girls run giggling/ on Park Avenue after dark/ when they ought to be home in bed?/ Well,/ that's the way it is with me somehow." ] - So there's detail and there's humor in relation to his own self, and there's the beginning of a kind of bodhisattva attitude towards the hearers outside the canon of ordinary poetry, or traditional poetry. These are now actually written for his wife, his mother(s), his neighbors - poems that actually can be communicated to ordinarily-considered non-poetic people, because they're using words made out of the materials of ordinary conversation, and they're dealing with matters that can be apprehended by eyeball and ear and senses, so that there's common ground and common territory. And it's very clear, clean, territory, because the words have all been washed clean of other associations and the perceptions have been washed clean of ideological reference, and there's nothing but the thing itself sitting before him, the natural objects, their own adequate symbols of themselves. "All things are symbols of themselves" - another Gnostic thought - or it's a Tibetan Buddhist thought - "All things are symbols of themselves" or "No ideas but in things", still.  So that leads to that poignant moment in (Williams' poem). "Thursday"[Allen reads Williams' "Thursday" - "I have had my dream - like others-/and it has come to nothing, so that/ I remain now carelessly.."..."..and decide to dream no more."] - So that kind of (resignation) intersects all common newspaper-consciousness. Old guys in the saloon "gave up". Williams gave up. Buddha gave up. Christ gave up. Everybody gave up and found themselves on Earth - to be perceptive, to do what? - In this case, to continue trying to clarify the language and create little clear rhythmic structures within the language, drawn from the speech of his towns-people. He could communicate to them in a familiar way - be so subtle that they wouldn't notice it was poetry. And with that also came a great deal of compassion - social compassion - noticing how hard-up people were.  

Spontaneous Poetics - 61 (William Carlos Williams 5 - To Elsie)

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AG: There's a very beautiful poem to America (by William Carlos Williams) called "To Elsie". Considering how mixed-up everyone else was in their language, and how mixed-up they were in their desires, substituting desires for television with desire for a clear language, or practice of clear language, or substituting argument for clear language. [Allen reads Williams' "To Elsie"]

TO ELSIE

The pure products of America
go crazy -
mountain-folk from Kentucky

or the ribbed north end of
Jersey
with its isolate lakes and

valleys, its deaf mutes, thieves,
old names
and promiscuity between

devil-may-care men who have taken
to railroading
out of sheer lust of adventure -

and young slatterns, bathed
in filth
from Monday to Saturday

to be tricked out that night
with gauds
from imaginations which have no

peasant traditions to give them
character
but flutter and flaunt

sheer rags - succumbing without
emotion
save numbed terror

under some hedge of choke-cherry
or viburnum -
which they cannot express -

Unless it be that marriage
perhaps
with a dash of Indian blood

will throw up a girl so desolate
so hemmed round
with disease or murder

that she'll be rescued by an
agent -
reared by the state and

sent out at fifteen to work in
some hard-pressed
house in the suburbs -

some doctor's family, some Elsie -
voluptuous water
expressing with broken

brain the truth about us
her great
ungainly hips and flopping breasts

addressed to cheap
jewellery
and rich young men with fine eyes

as if the earth under our feet
were
an excrement of some sky

and we degraded prisoners
destined
to hunger until we eat filth

while the imagination strains
after deer
going by fields of goldenrod in

the stifling heat of September
Somehow
it seems to destroy us

it is only in isolate flecks that
something
is given off

No one
to witness
and adjust, no one to drive the car.


Student: That's called "Elsie"?  "To Elsie"?

AG: Well, it's (a) section - "To Elsie".  It's on page 270 of the Collected Earlier Poems. That was one of the first I heard him read, I think. What was interesting, and relevant to what we're talking about, in terms of working with the particular and accepting the particular - or accepting the self, (accepting the place where we are means accepting the suffering of the situation, as well as accepting the realization that we've all sold ourselves out for heaven, and sold the earth out, and are not appreciative of what we have already) - "as if the earth under our feet/ were /an excrement of some sky / and we degraded prisoners/ destined/ to hunger until we eat filth"

Student: Will you say something about the line "addressed to...

AG: "...rich young men with fine eyes"

Student: ..addressed to cheap ornamental jewellery or something...

AG: Her "hips and flopping breasts/  addressed to cheap/  jewellery" - ("addressed" means, as well, "dressed" - dressed with cheap jewellery) - but, addressed her sex and woman parts, "addressed" (to) "rich young men with fine eyes", who take advantage of her - "giving herself to".. as a fifteen-year-old hard-working maid, sent out by the State to work as a house-girl in a doctor's office.. there's the young prince of the family, coming along, up in the attic, to fuck her and give her a baby, (then need) to get an abortion, or whatever. So he was just noting the sociology of it (all)

Student : Yes I guess, but the word "addressed", I was wondering...

AG: It's interesting. "her great/ ungainly hips and flopping breasts/  addressed to cheap/  jewellery/ and rich young men with fine eyes/  as if the earth under our feet..." - as if that was the best she could do, as if that was all that fate had for her, as if that was all she could ask for.

Student: Uh-huh

AG: ..all that she knew to ask for.  "It is only in isolate flecks that/ something/ is give off" - those are the poems. Those are his poems, I think he was referring to (as well as "isolate flecks" of perception - occcasionally - isolate flecks of perception when we penetrate through our illusions and our daydreams and see our own condition, or own lack-love, or own imprecision, our own denial of our desires and denial of our own perceptions). "No one to drive the car" - that's a funny metaphor - metaphor? - I guess it's a metaphor for that condition of American life he was talking about (using a very American image). No one to drive the car - of the mind, I guess.  

Spontaneous Poetics - 62 (William Carlos Williams 6)

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William Carlos Williams

[William Carlos Williams (1883-1963)  - Photograph via University of Pennsylvania Archives]

AG: Please raise your hands.. Okay, so that's good.. So I can read on a little more of (William Carlos) Williams. Some students who were here before have heard me read some of these. Last year I went through some of the same poems, and I hate to repeat, but the bulk of people in class aren't familiar with these specific poems and I think they are highlights of Williams' practice and they're good solid poems you can get mind's eye into, so it's a good entry into seeing Williams' larger work, or seeing the whole body of his work, if you get in with these poems, I think.

Student: Allen, are these from his later volumes?

AG: Pardon me?

Student : Are these from the (19)60's?

AG: God, I haven't.. No, these are not from the (19)60's, these are (from) the (19)20's. He's working that early in that refined perception, that new consciousness, so to speak, which has overtaken everybody in the nation at this point.

Student: How old was he then?

AG: When was he born? 1896 or so?  (18)90?  I've forgotten..1896 more likely. We can look it up in a book later. So I guess he'd be 30, 35, 40, mid-life...

Student: Did he work...

AG: ..mature, married, mature, children out, just beginning to look around, really seeing the world around him, like a new husband sort of...

Student: Did he work as a doctor full-time?

AG: Yes

Student: All his life?

AG: He worked as a pediatrician full-time, and when I first went to see him, I asked him, "Do you think of yourself as a poet or a doctor?" and he said "A doctor". He was a full-time doctor.

One poem of his that I've always liked, that does contain a great deal of direct detail is "Horned Purple" - a little portrait (or "character", as (T.S.) Eliot said of Williams, or to Williams when he met him - "Mr Williams, I admire your characters. Let's have more of them" - characters, meaning little portraits, sketch-portraits of persons). Williams got real mad, thinking that Eliot was being condescending. "Horned Purple" - You can see it, actually, on Broadway, in Boulder, in front of the pin-ball store. [Allen reads Williams' "Horned Purple" - "This is the time of year/ when boys fifteen and seventeen/ wear two horned lilac blossoms/ in their caps - or over one ear"..."Out of their sweet heads/ dark kisses, rough faces" - That's really generous to notice that. That's nice for an old doctor to notice that little bit of eros and ancient satyrical archetype in Rutherford, New Jersey.
But, "It is only in isolate flecks that/ something is/ given off" so the perception becomes more and more refined to recollect the "isolate flecks" as, working in the hospital, perhaps glancing out of the window, he saw "Between Walls" [ Allen reads Williams' poem of that title] - "the back wings/ of the/ hospital where/nothing/ will grow lie/ cinders/ in which shine/the broken/ pieces of a green bottle"] - I'll read that again because I was spaced-out when I was reading it [Allen reads the poem again] - And that's always been compared to a celebrated Chinese poem, observing the beauty of an individual flower, solitary tree, or individual flower in a spot. It's almost like (an) adaptation of a traditional haiku, or (written in the) Chinese style to see the flowering of a bit of perception -  "in the back wings/ of the/ hospital where/nothing/ will grow lie/ cinders". 

Student: Was Williams aware of all these connections to haiku and Buddhism?

AG: Oh yes, because there was an enormous practice of haiku from the days of Adelaide Crapsey in Seattle in 1905, and Amy Lowell and Ezra Pound and all the Imagists - Des Imagistes - The Imagists themselves were influenced by Oriental writing, Chinese hieroglyph, calligraphy, picture-language, which Pound wrote a long lecture on, called.."The Chinese Written Character As A Medium For Poetry"... 

Student: But influenced by Buddhist thought also?

AG: Well, to the extent that haiku is actually an extension of Buddhist practice,

Student: Yeah

AG: ...and they were translating haiku. They probably didn't notice it was Buddhist, but their aims were similar in terms of direct perception. So that the literary influences were pretty direct from some Buddhist sources, but other Confucian sources. Pound wrote that essay, interested, particularly, in the fact that Chinese is (a) picture-language (and) so doesn't have abstract words like "truth" or "green" - they would have a picture of... for green, I don't know what, a grass spear, whatever, green, a leaf maybe? - whatever green elements there might be combined, I don't know what the hieroglyph would be, but, at any rate, they were influenced by Chinese and Japanese calligraphic writing, or Chinese particularly, as picture-image language. 
So that's an extreme of perception. That is, an extreme, almost literary, extreme of perception (though it's a real substantial glint, the green bottle gleam - his noticing of it in these literary terms is his atfulness, shrewdness.
(Then) there's areally astonishing piece of Americana (suburban imagery, that has nothing to do with the Chinese, except that it also gets some notion ofsunyata emptiness in it) [Allen reads Williams' poem,"The Term" - "A rumpled sheet/ of brown paper/ about the length/  and apparent bulk/of a man was/ rolling with the/ wind..."..."...Unlike/ a man it rose/ again rolling/  with the wind over/ and over to be/ as it was before"] -  That's something I've seen on the streets, the wind blowing around a piece of paper, down the street, " about the length/  and apparent bulk/of a man". It's sort of like an amazing slow-motion movie, because it does cast a clear picture-image on the mind, like a slow-motion movie of the brown paper rolling over in the Rutherford street, a car passing over it, and then the wind... So, actually, what he's done, by mentioning the wind, once, at the very end,  he's created the whole torrent of wind down the street that day, or he's found a term to express the bulkiness of the wind, and the poem is called "The Term" - "The Term" - like the term for perception, or the term for the wind (but some mental measure of  "term"). What does "term" mean, actually, I wonder - the word "term" - the "terms" in which we talk of reality. 

Student: I felt.. what I felt there was the length of time.

AG: The length of time that it took for the wind to come down, the car to crush it down (the sheet of paper) and bring it up?

Student; Yeah, the term of life.

AG: The term of life itself, maybe. I thought it was the aesthetic terms he was talking about, the aesthetic term he was talking about. This is "the term" of his aesthetics - A completely natural Rutherford scene, with no poetry in it, but the bare description of fact, bare attention and description of detail that provides "a machine made of words", or a word-picture, sufficiently clear, to be projected in (on) other people's minds, (once they got their home-movie plugged into the wall, by understanding his terms).  

Student: Like a mudra or something..

AG: In what sense, is (it) a mudra here?

Student: A perfect expression of the quality of what he's describing.

AG: Yeah, actually, it's a perfect expression of the quality of the wind. So, "the term of the wind" is, in a way, how I interpret it - the term of the wind. Plus the term of his art. It's an ambiguous title. It's a nice poem because it's got that funny little one slow-motion image and once you've seen it, you see it forever. 
So he was interested in details. It's a passion for observation really, also. He has a little poem called "Cezanne" (which is not in his Collected Works - published in The Nation, May 13, 1961), which I always dug because it was about some work of mine, called "Cezanne". [Allen reads Williams'' poem, "Cezanne" - "No pretense.  No more than the French painters of the early years of the 19th century. To scant the truth of the light itself as it was reflected from a ballerina's thigh. This Ginsberg of "Kaddish" falls apart violently to a peal of laughter or to wrenched imprecation from a man's head. Nothing can stop the truth of it. Art is all we can say to reverse the chain of events and make a pile-up of passion to match the stars. No choice but  between a certain variation, hard to perceive, in a shade of blue."] - It was published in The Nation, May 13, 1961. (So) I think I've talked a little about Cezanne's method of creating "the little sensation" of space by means of the fine adjustment of optic paint on flat canvas - hot colors advancing, cold colors receding optically in the eyeball  (as a matter of fact, if you put them side by side, you create a sensation of space - like turning the shutters of a venetian blind all of a sudden, sometimes a Cezanne painting will leap into 3-D that way). [Allen reads the poem again] - Well, he's saying several things there, but the main thing is careful attention to the finer details of perception, to the finer details of perception. Talking of Cezanne here, no choice, no big Romantic, artistic, choice of subject, but between a certain variation (hard to perceive if you're staring closely and trying to match your blue paint with the blue of the shadow of the tree on the mountain. 

Remembering Kathy Acker

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[Kathy Acker (1947-1997) - photograph by Allen Ginsberg. Copyright - Allen Ginsberg Estate - caption - "Kathy Acker in Green Room, Detroit Institute of the Arts, one night February 1985 we read together with Diane Di Prima - she writes violent sexual feminist narratives, parody of imaginative love-torture novels, lives in London, first published chapters of books as pamphlets I found in the mail from Lower East Side New York"]  


[Kathy Acker reading from "The Adult Life of Toulouse Lautrec"  at the Western Front. circa 1979, from Western Front Archive, Vancouver BC, Canada] .

Kathy Acker's has been previously featured on this blog interviewing William S Burroughs, but today is Kathy's birthday, (it would have been her 66th), and so today we wanted to put the spotlight on her.

Here's an illuminating page of audio (from that remarkable resource that is PennSound),
including the whole of the Hal Wilner-produced CD, Redoing Childhood (from 1999), her collaboration with The Mekons, "Pussy King of the Pirates", (from 1996), an interview/reading from SUNY, Buffalo (from the year before), and a rare 1978 recording from New York's Ear Inn (including sections from "(The) Adult Life of Toulouse-Lautrec" (published in that year), as well as several excerpts from "Blood and Guts in High School" (recorded, as it has been noted, a full six years before that particular book was published)).   

Here's Ellen Friedman's interview with Kathy (from 1989, from The Review of Contemporary Fiction) - Here's Mark Magill, six years earlier - questions and answers - in Bomb magazine. Here's a 1992 radio-interview with Michael Silverblatt, and, circa 1995, a conversation with R.U.Sirius.



Barbara Caspar's Who's Afraid of Kathy Acker? film documentary is well worth viewing
Come  Taste My Hand, a video-tribute by Lance and Andi Olsen, is available on You Tube in two parts - here and here.   

Another posthumus piece - Here's David Antin's (filmed) memoir/talk in the 2002 NYU Kathy Acker Symposium

In 1964, while still a student, she attended a reading by Allen and Peter at Brandeis University. She recalled that they performed on stage dressed in towels (sic), and that, that evening, she "learned more about poetry than (she) had in years of top-level academic training."
A decade or more later, at CBGB's, paradoxically, she was part of a group that was mercilessly heckling Allen. She explained:  "(We) ...spontaneously attacked and praised (him). Attacked him for being established, established in a society which we developed, and for bringing something as boring as real poetry into our territory of nihilism, formlessness and anarchic joy. (At the same time), We revered him because he and the rest of the Beats were our grandparents". 
"The Beats", she went on,"had understood what it is to feel, therefore to be a deformity in a normal (right-wing) world...Ginsberg's joy, (was) like our joy,(it) had the sharpness, the nausea, of all that comes from pain, from suffering.."
A late encounter (witnessingBurroughsand Ginsberg in Lawrence) is recounted in21C magazine (from 1997 - all three died that year, the editor ruefully notes) - "Ginsberg was slightly more reserved. He seemed preoccupied with his health (he told me that due to heart trouble he had to cut down his touring) and with meditation practice...I saw how intelligent (he) is, while he was speaking, I could watch his mind move from point to point. Could this precision of mental movement which I call "intelligence" be related to meditation, to the clearing of the mind of obfuscation?"
  
Here's Peter Wollen's 1998 piece on her in the London Review of Books 

and here's Kathy, a few short months before her cancer death, dancing with The Mekons




It is also the great Bob Kaufman's birthday. See our previous Allen Ginsberg Project Kaufman postings here and here.

Friday Weekly Round-Up - 122

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[cover for On Tibetan Buddhism, Mantras and Drugs - Interviews with Allen Ginsberg by Paul Lobo Portuges,  published by Word Palace Press, San Luis Obispo, California, 2013]  


Livro Mente Espontânea homenageia Allen Ginsberg

[Cover illustration for the recently-published Brazilian (Portuguese) edition of Spontaneous Mind (Mente Espontanea) Selected Interviews 1958-1966, published by Novo Século (New Century) in São Paulo, Brazil, 2013]

























[Cover illustration for original US edition of Spontaneous Mind - Selected Interviews 1958-1996, published by HarperCollins, New York, 2001]


A follow-up onlast week's post about philistinism, and ignorance about Allen, in Arica, Chile. The controversy, it seems, has now effectively been resolved by an unequivocal public apology by Salvador Urrutia, that city's Mayor - "nuestras disculpas a Allen Ginsberg por las desatinadas, fundamentalistas e intolerantes declaraciones en contra de sus poemas que se han realizado en los recintos de nuestra Municipalidad"  ("our apologies to Allen Ginsberg for misguided, fundamentalist and intolerant statements that have been made in the halls of our Municipality"), he writes. He also offers apologies (disculpas) to Daniel Rojas Pachas, the poet targeted,  "objeto de ataques absurdos", (the) (object of  (these) absurd attacks). 



Performances this past week (in both Los Angeles and San Francisco) of the Hal Willner-Chloe Webb-Bill Frisell-Ralph Steadman Kaddish, revised somewhat from itsNew York debut last year. Positive reports is what we're hearing.   



The manuscript (from the Ray Davids collection) of a segment of  Wales Visitation (Allen's classic 1965 poem) that, as we reported a few weeks back, was up for sale at auction, surprised everyone, surpassing  the  £800 to £1,000 price-tag - it went for £3,125 (approximately $4,800).


Those who appreciated our recent posting(s) of Allen on haiku will appreciate this - (scroll down - but you'll be distracted scrolling down!) - froma selection of pieces from Zero magazine - "A Collage of Haiku, Kerouac's Spontaneous Writ, Zengakuren Couplets, Tibetan Mind-Training Slogans and Blake’s Augeries  with brief explanations – excerpts from a lecture 11/8/1978 at the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics. A class on meditation and poetics" - (there's also a second Ginsberg contribution - "Two Poems"  ("Fake Saint" and  "Old Pond", his hommage to Matsuo Basho). Contributions too from Leonard Cohen, John Ashbery, James Tate, interviews withKenneth Rexroth, Paul Bowles, John Cage...  the site is well worth a visit.

Allen Ginsberg, Anne Waldman, Chogyam Trungpa & William Burroughs Reading, Boulder, 1976

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Allen Ginsberg




















Last weekend's 1976 Ginsberg-McClure reading was warmly received. Here's another one, again recorded at Naropa in 1976, (a couple of months later), and featuring, in addition to Allen, Anne Waldman, Chogyam Trungpa (English translations read by David Rome) and - William S Burroughs!
Philip Whalen provides the spare but informative introductions. The tape begins with him introducing Allen (some amusement from the audience - it's early days -when he announces Allen's been singing)






PW: Mr Allen Ginsberg's  latest book is called First Blues, a lot of which is in the process right now of being recorded with Mr Ginsberg singing the lead part..with a ..what’s called a "scratch group", I think, in New York - but the book has been printed by the Full Court Press and is available nowadays, a very interesting book of song - also, quite recently, the..an exchange of letters -To Eberhart From Ginsberg: An Historic Document From The Beat Era Published Now For The First Time, by Penman Press - Richard Eberhart, as you may well know, is the cousin to Anne London who was Gerd Stern’s first wife. I met him once at Ruth Witt-Diamants house - a very nice man, The occasion for the exchange of letters was, I believe, the review that Mr Eberhart wrote on Mr Ginsberg's poems some time ago. In any case, this interesting exchange with present-day after-thoughts, appendages – a moment of literary history that you could look into. The larger book of poems The Fall of America from City Lights Press, Allen’s regular publisher, is also around and about, a very clear statement about what’s happening and been happening for the last ten years or so. So Allen will read first I think with the assistance  of Mr Karl Bergerand more folks.. okay, Allen, if you please.


[Allen comes in approximately two-and-three-quarter minutes in] - AG: "1972 to the present (1976), I'll be reading short poems. In Australia - Ayers Rock in Central Australian desert - a large red rock, porous, which collects water, so there's always water around the side and Aboriginal tribes conduct ceremonies there because it's a sacred place" - Allen performs "Ayers Rock/ Uluru Song" (sans Aboriginal song-sticks), followed by "We Rise on Sunbeams and Fall In The Night", followed by long detailed poem evoking New York City vista -"Hospital Window" ("At gauzy dusk thin haze like cigarette smoke.."), followed by selected "Haikus At Rocky Mountain Dharma Center Crazy WisdomLectures" ("Discipline/real discipline/Yellow carnations open under flood-lamps in the tent"..), followed by "Reading French Poetry" ("Poems rise in my brain/like Woolworth's 5 & 1o cents Store perfume..") - "We're now up to January of this year (1976) so I'll be reading everything up to this month" - Allen reads from "Two Dreams" - Dream, March 1 1976 ("As I passed thru Moscow's grass lots...")  and (contemporaneous to his father's dying, hence earlier versions) "a series of poems called "Don't Grow Old" ("Old Poet, Poetry's final subject glimmers months ahead..") - followed by (somewhat incongruously and thus jarring) the erotic doggerel, "C'mon Jack" ( - "(of a) different mood" (sic) - that this is presented somewhat out of context, is evident when, following Anne Waldman's first poem. "Divorce Work", recordings of Allen return again - the completion of the "Don't Grow Old" sequence (sections 3 and 4 -  "I read my father Wordsworth's  "Tintern Abbey" (sic)..", and "Will I really die?/ In front of your own eye" (sic) - instances of later revised lines) - followed by a rendition (with piano accompaniment from Karl Berger) of "Father Death Blues" - the thunderous applause suggesting this, not "C'mon Jack", was the actual conclusion of the reading)  



Philip Whalen introduces Anne Waldman: Thank you Allen and Karl (Karl disappeared fast!). Anne Waldman is the next reader. Robert Graves says that for a lady to be a poet is a tough job. She's got to assume the character of the Muse instead of just sitting around and waiting for the Muse to deliver the message. She's got to rise up and hand it out, just go out and do it, and few poets can do it as well as Anne can, and so it's my pleasure to introduce Ms Waldman, who is the author of.. various things here!..Journals and Dreams,Sun the Blonde Out (which is a new book - Sun The Blonde Out is a very special edition) and then, earlier on, Baby Breakdown.. She says she's going to read a bit of old and new thins for you - Ms Anne, come on..




Anne Waldman begins with a reading of  "Musical Garden" ("can't give you up..!"), followed by "heavier New York City work" ( "..which includes some cut-up of some Dante from Purgatorio and a walk around the Lower East Side, and a few other things"),"Divorce Work" - [her set is interrupted by further readings by Allen Ginsberg - see above] - Afterwards, (at approximately 34 minutes in), she reads "Boulder Poem" and "a shortened version of this piece called "Shaman Hisses", a work-in-progress, based on some journal work traveling with this rock and roll show [the Rolling Thunder tour], it has some speeches" [and a lightly-veiled portrait of Bob Dylan, the eponymous "Shaman")

























At approximately 48-and-a-quarter minutes in, Philip Whalen introduces Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche -  "I have the great pleasure and honor of introducing a new American poet of great distinction, Chogyam Trunpa Rinpoche, assisted by Mr David Rome"   

CTR: "Good evening once more. There have been some studies in the (state) of Tibetan poetics, as well as  (the) idea (that that) mentality can be translated into the English language - basically, that has to be a lot of work!  As far as the English language is concerned, I prefer it was read by a friend, who understands - and David Rome has been constantly with me, as you know (some of you may not know). But, at the same time, there has been some communication and understanding of (our) poetics. So the English section of that will be read by Mr Rome at this point, which he has (who has) (dramatic?) understanding of the whole feeling and particularly. One of the interesting point(s) (is) that  

such poetries were written at the time where there was..  Mr  Rome takes part in my composing poetry which (and) actually gives a lot of help, and that actually can be transmitted to you people. So the English readings of this poetry, these poetries, could be
(are, effectively) translated by Mr Rome, and there are (also) a few poems that (also work in) the Tibetan version which is actually being… (It's) very interesting that the traditional old language and the modernistic language of Tibet.  (and) how that can be combined together, in inspirational language, completely, properly, which is actually the… If you’re a philologist, (or) linguist, you find that out, that the ancientness of Tibet and the modern-ness of Tibet could combine together with lots of subtleties.. involved with that. So I would like to read – I’m sure you would not understand – except one or two of you in the audience who are Tibetans – but I would like to read (a) Tibetan poem and  also I’ve been trying different styles.. what’s known as "prose-poetry" - together - and the prose (seems to have) has some kind of qualities of its own vitality, and its own dynamic qualities, and the poems are usually all either 7 syllables - dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah - or else you have 9 syllables - dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah (so you have 9-syllable versions of the 7 syllable version) - and I have been experimenting, actually, with the 18-syllable version, (which I don’t think we have the time to go through the whole thing at this point tonight, since the situation is pressured somewhat, and we don’t want you to…(we don't want to be) completely exasperating the poetry world. You have your domestic problems too!) – So this  one is..first one I’m gonna read is.. (a) very religious type, very Buddhistic approach, that comes from somewhat a traditional format . It has the notion of.. (a) real sense of genuine devotion to someone’s father-guru, father-teacher, and this story is actually true, and I would like to read this, this was actually from.. composed in Vermont, Karme Choling, in our other meditation center(s) there, and the date was..December 1974, that’s right. So the first portion is actually the prose part, and then it comes with a.. poetry part of it. So here it goes.." 
At approximately 53 minutes and 45 seconds in, Chogyam Trunpa begins his part of the reading, in Tibetan. David Rome follows with their collaborative English translation, "Song of the White Banner", followed by a short poem ("Dzogchen teacher hates the horse but the horse carries him/ At the river, both depend on the boat/ For crossing the mountains its better to carry a stick") - "This (next) one is called "(A) Letter to Marpa" (notes onMarpa, June 6, 1972) 
Chogyham Trungpa Rinpoche continues - "“The further experimentations of Tibetan poetries - written in Tibetan and then translated into (the) English  (language) - which seem to be an interesting project for us, particularly in my case, and makes sense both ways. It does not become purely classical or purely contemporary...So here we have a few examples of  that. We would like to show it to you, and it is written in a traditional Tibetan format of 4 lines and 7 syllable approach..and  the first one is.... [Chogyham Trungpa first reads the poem in Tibetan and then David Rome follows with the English. They alternate on a number of pieces] - "In Spring, the North Wind Rises…" - "next (line) is a 9-syllable one ("The Tibetan mountain wears a yellow cloak to ward off attacks.."), ("The mist rises slowly in fear of the wind"..), ("The restless poet who composes a verse in praise of solitude..."), ("The inside which transcends mind and the mind which activates awareness..") 
"(The) next ones..a lot of them are..actually poems I wrote myself in the English language, a lot of them are extraordinarily spontaneous situation(s) and they are..several of them.. well I would prefer you to use your own judgment rather than me explaining my own particular trip laid on you – thank you..  At approximately 69 minutes in, David Rome reads "Supplication to the Emperor"  ("You are our rock...") – "The conditions these poems were written (in) were very spontaneous, in some case(s), and sort of trying to work with the English language, as myself, I dream in English somewhat, and trying to work together with the humor and dignity and some kind of sharpness that goes with the whole thing,. So everything is not actually composed as a studied situation at all. Everything’s composed by a situation where I pushed myself in writing poetry (so we could say, in so me sense, the situation writes my poetry for me). So this is one of the examples actually. David Rome reads  "Report from Loveland" - "One little short one in Tibetan, that we translated into the English, it's.. it was actually composed… not all that recent(ly) .It’s based on somebody’s personal trip, and it goes…Chogyam Trungpa reads this poem in Tibetan, then David Rome reads in translation ("You bought it from your father, you sold it to your mother...your family heirloom is..pride") - "Well they asked me.. a lot of the spontaneous poetry, actually being.. coming out (not actually be written but still coming out, which seems to be an interesting point). (There's)..not much time to read the whole thing out for you, but feel (wanted to provide) sort of examples of things - maybe you should hear some of them, okay? - David Rome reads (approximately 4 minutes) "Aurora Seven" ("When a cold knife.."), followed by "1111 Pearl Street" (Off Beat), "1111 Pearl Street (Victory Chatter), "Literal Mathematics"  ("Zero is Nothing"), and "Aurora Seven" (“Sun is dead moon is born..")



The final segment of the reading (presented here on a separate tape) is by William S Burroughs. Philip Whalen gives the Introduction (beginning approximately 55 seconds in)

PW: I first heard about Mr Burroughs from Allen and from Jack Kerouac about 2o odd years ago. Once in a while, (while) we were all living in Berkeley, Allen would get a letter from Burroughs, who at that time was in Tangier, I guess and, usually, toward the end of the letter, he'd be working into one of his routines that you may be familiar with from reading Naked Lunch and The Nova ExpressandThe Ticket That Exploded. I’d be... Allen would read them aloud, or just show them to me wordlessly, and then we’d all be on the floor, laughing together, (because of this) terrific stuff coming, coming in. His effect on the work of several generations of American writers is pretty large. Kerouac kept telling me.. he says, “You know, you ought to go to New York. When Burroughs gets back, you ought to go to New York, and see him, he’s really great, talk to him." And, of course, Burroughs managed to stay in… clear across the world from where I was, and I never got to see him until much later – but it’s a great pleasure to be around where I can see him, every couple of years now, it’s really nice. His most recent works are The Last Words of Dutch Schultz from Richard Seaver Books/Viking Press and A Book of Breeething. And so he’s going to read some of his prose for you now -  William Burroughs

Burroughs begins reading about two-and-three-quarter minutes in, beginning with  "Meeting of International Conference on Technological Psychiatry.."(from Naked Lunch) and "Twilight's Last Gleaming" (with the first appearance of "Doctor Benway"

Spontaneous Poetics - 63 (William Carlos Williams 7)

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[William Carlos Williams (1883-1963)]

Ginsberg on Williams (from June 1976 at Naropa) continues:

AG:  So it's a question of the whole problem of the structure of the universe then, (that it) depends on our own perception of it, naturally And here we've got a man (Williams) working on his perceptions directly, and using the language as a way to recognize and refine his perceptions and to define his perception or first thought as the material for his work  - very manly work, in a sense (though it's just purely aesthetic). He's got a poem (called), "The Men" -  big macho aesthetic. [ Allen reads Williams' "The Men" in its entirety - "Wherein is Moscow's dignity/more than Passaic's dignity?/A few men have added color better/ to the canvas, that's all"...." ..Only/ the men are different who see it/ draw it down in their minds/ or might be different"] - Only the men might be different. That's (a) very clear social poem. It really provides a program for American painters and aesthetes, and politicians, finally, movie-makers, style-brokers. But it's a kind of slow patient process. So he's got, in his Collected Later Poems (which I'm now beginning to deal with), "A Sort of  (a) Song" (A sorta song) - [Allen reads Williams' "A Sort of Song" - "Let the snake wait under/ his weed. and the writing/ be of words, slow and quick, sharp/ to strike, quiet to wait,/ sleepless./ - through metaphor to reconcile/ the people and the stones./ Compose. (No ideas/ but in things) Invent!/ Saxifrage is my flower that splits/ the rocks"] - Saxifrage is a weed that grows in rock and in pavements and by dint of its endurance, hardiness and native...  

Student" "No ideas but in things, Invent.."

AG: Um-hmm

Student: Invent?

AG: Um-hmm. Combinations of things.

Student: What about things as they appear?

AG: Well, you've got to invent them too. You have to invent things as they appear, also.

Student: Inventing the works...

AG: There's no way out, you see.

Student: What's the name of that poem

AG: A Sort of Song.. (So) (but..) what is the native thing that saxiflage is to the soil that makes it more habituated to the soil than the concrete? The concrete crumbles and (but) the saxifrage can, apparently, renew itself inexhaustibly, and (it) splits the rocks of imperception. So he's saying (that) though there's no escape, except the observation of the certain variation in the shade of blue, though it may seem like a very minor activity (being stuck with the details of earth in a very small and non-romantic activity, a very small and non-romantic enterprise for poetics), still it's sure as saxiflage to split the rocks of civilization, if the perception can be maintained, if the mind doesn't get lost, if the mind doesn't get lost in the world of its own invention, or purely of its own invention. 
"The Cure" - So he got depressed, because it was a lot of hard work, naturally, and boring
(as they say of meditation) - [ Allen reads Williams' "The Cure" in its entirety - "Sometimes I envy others, fear them/ a little too, if they write well./ For when I cannot write I am a sick man/ and want to die. The cause is plain./  But they have no access to my sources./ Let them write them as they may and/perfect it as they can they will never/ come to the secret of that form/  interknit with the unfathomable ground/ where we walk daily and from which/ among the rest you have sprung/ and opened flower-like to my hand"] - So he really knows where he is and he's got all his powers assembled and bow is beginning to display them.

Here's a piece of vipassana, or mindfulness, insight into detail called "Perfection" - [Allen reads Williams' poem "Perfection" - "O lovely apple!/ beautifully and completely/ rotten,/ hardly a contour marred - /  perhaps a little/ shrivelled at the top but that/ aside perfect. in every detail! O lovely/  apple! what a/ deep and suffusing brown/mantles that/ unspoiled surface! No one/ has moved you/ since I placed you on the porch/ rail a month ago/ to ripen./  No one. No one!"] - So he's been meditating on that apple all month, that little apple out there on the porch railing, been watching it all month, and, finally, the moment of perfection has come when the apple has ripened in his mind, and he realizes he alone (like Plotinus), alone with the alone (or alone in the alone), [editorial note - the actual phrase of Plotinus is the "flight of the alone to the alone"] has got a perfection of percepton at this point, a perception of being.

1,000th Posting

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If we've got the maths right...  

1,000 postings!  

What an incredible resource The  Allen Ginsberg Project is! - On this momentous occasion, we'd ask you all a favor - Can you use our Comments section more? !  (we want to elicit and host some healthy debate - we don't want to be "telling you things" all the time). Also, please, please, given the monumental numbers of links on this site (hyper-text and all that)  and the vagaries (out of our control) of the Internet, can you please write us (back-channel, we guess) of any links that have gone down and might be in need repair? - Oh, and use those links on the right-hand side (we don't think they're consulted enough - not the least, check out our voluminous archives, stretching back, all the way back to our first post of February, 2009) - and if you have, anytime, any criticism, praise, thoughts or suggestions about what we're doing...

Spontaneous Poetics - 64 (William Carlos Williams 8)

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[William Carlos Williams (1883-1963)]

Ginsberg on Williams continues:

AG: There's lots of short poems (of Williams) that might be looked at. What does he do (for example) when he gets into a violent scene, where all perceptions are jarred? [Allen proceeds to read William Carlos Williams' poem, "The Last Turn" - "Then see it! in distressing / detail - from behind a red light/at 53rd and 8th/ of a November evening, the jazz/ of the cross lights echoing the/crazy weave of the breaking mind:/ splash of half purple, half/ naked woman's body whose jeweled/ guts the cars drag up and down -/ No house but has its brains/ blown off by the dark/ Nothing recognizable, the whole one/ jittering direction made of all/direction spelling the inexplicable:/ pigment upon flesh and flesh/the pigment the genius of a world,/ against which rages the fury of/our concepts, artless but supreme" - That's (a) kind of sitting-on-the-fence (I guess), in the sense that he's finally seeing that what we see is also a pure concept - particularly in moments of (a) car-crash! 

Student: How does those last few lines go. He somehow (introduces) the concept and then he...

AG: "Nothing recognizable, the one whole (sic)/ jittering direction.." - the one whole jittering direction - "made of all/direction spelling the inexplicable" - It does get a little corny there (I'd say "spelling the inexplicable" sounds (a bit) like my fatherthere, a little bit). That "spelling the inexplicable" -  it's not (a) visual image, so he's violated his "No ideas but in things" (there). Shock did it. But he did get that "November evening...jazz/ ..the cross lights echoing../crazy weave of the breaking mind:/ splash of half purple, half/ naked woman's body whose jeweled/ guts the cars drag up and down" - he did get a flash-photo before he went off. "Pigment upon flesh and flesh/the pigment.." - that's a little bit back to the original image - "Pigment the genius of a world" - I guess, "flesh/the pigment the genius of a world,/ against which.." - actually, I don't understand the end of the poem - "against which rages the fury of/our concepts" - I guess, actually, the flesh, the genius of the world, is artless, but supreme (rather than our concepts) here.  So maybe he isn't on-the-fence after all  [turning to one student (J.S.) - I thought for a minute he was taking your position]

"The Thoughtful Lover" - [Allen reads, in its entirety, Williams' poem, "The Thoughtful Lover" - "Deny yourself all/half things. Have it/ or leave it..."..."But today/ the particulars/of poetry/  that difficult art/ require/ your whole attention." - "The Thoughtful Lover"

Here he (is) in a very minor, tiny, poem, called"Silence", where he returns to the haiku form, or approaches again that haiku silence - [Allen reads Williams'  "Silence" - "Under a low sky -/ this quiet morning/ of red and/ yellow leaves -/  a bird disturbs/ no more than one twig/ of the green leaved/ peach tree"] - "A bird disturbs/ no more than one twig/ of the green leaved/ peach tree" - so he noticed that. That's a pretty close thing to notice, a very delicate thing to notice. You have to keep thinking about writing a poem to do that. That's sort of an arty - artful - one.

Student: Say some more about that one, will you? Thinking about writing a poem?

AG: What poem was that? "Silence"? - I forgot about that poem a minute after I read it! - Silence - What did I say?

Student: Just that sense of..  I got a sense that you meant that (the poet) was aware (of)...

AG: Oh, writing a poem. I see. That was (actually) a little after-thought that I was (immediately) ashamed of, I immediately amnesia-ized it. Okay - " "Under a low sky -/ this quiet morning/ of red and/ yellow leaves -" - so he's got to look out there and see - that's red, that's yellow - you call that a red leaf? that's.. how do you describe it? Well, "quiet morning", "red and yellow leaves" - At least he's got he red and yellow leaves keeping the morning quiet. And then, well there must be a poem here, or maybe not even thinking about it, but just noting that he's looking at it - and then a bird disturbs one twig. So he noticed the lightness of the bird, I guess, coming in or zooming out, and then, at some point or other, he must have noticed that it was... well, the title of the poem is "Silence" - so there's a funny correlation between just the one twig moving in total silence, and (how) almost imperceptible the complete universe of the bird was, except that he was happening to look at it. So at some point or other he must have remembered or recollected just having seen that, and then maybe looked out the window again to get some more detail - "red and/yellow leaves" - a quiet morning of red and yellow leaves. It sounds like something he may have revised also, to order the sequence of perceptions in their chronological order (or at least with the background of red and yellow leaves).
But "no more than one twig" is a very odd phrase -  "disturbs/ no more than one twig" - so he was thinking, "Gee, it could have made a big mess, come splashing down like the great Roc and splintered the whole tree, or come thrashing in" - but, apparently, the bird was quite conscious of how it alighted, so it was a little consciousness of the bird that he was noticing, the delicacy of the bird (which may have made him think of his own art, and the exactness and delicacy and precision of his own mind, lighting on objects and then adjusting words, or hearing words in his head perhaps). So "no more than one twig" - the word "one" there is sort of like.. you'd have to think up a word to deal with the piece of wood that moved, the piece of living wood that moved, you'd have to notice that it was only one, and that's sort of a language thing. It's an odd language intrusion on the picture, to label the twig "one", and to label the action, to locate, to settle the action (with) just the word "one" and "one twig". "No more than one twig" is kind of strange. It's almost abstract, rather than a description of what happened. To have thought that that was the characteristic noticing-point or highlight of what happened with the bird - "no more than one twig" moved. 

Student: What I'm intrigued by is when you said that (there was) that sense of a craftsman looking for things to write about. So his perception is very conditioned by....

AG: By his practice.

Student: The goal of his..

AG: Yes

Student: By what he's (observing)..

AG: It's a circular system. Having gambled for that world, he's reduced to looking for instances to prove his theory.. It's as if he's produced this as an instance - and that's why he's using this Chinese (sic) haiku form, a very literary form (or perhaps he was reading haiku, and that reminded him he could do a little notation like that). But it's a very bare notation. It's (a) very clear bare notation. It's a good example of Williams practicing. It's like practice, in the sense that sitting meditation (as it is called "practice")  does (after all) consist, not in (the) accomplishing of a consciousness, but in the practice of switching consciousness around, from one place to another... Could this (poem) be called a meditation, a form of meditation, I wonder? or a by-product of vipassana? - that a bird disturbs no more than one twig of the green leaf tree. Well, it's meditation mixed with ambition-for-writing-a-poem! 

Student: What we're doing, though, is ambition-to-meditate rather than poetry.

AG: Well now, say it clearly (again).. What we're doing is what? Ambition to meditate..

Student: The way... the way you're reading the poem is sort of a.. or what you're using to illustrate, is the poetry of the ambition-to-meditate.

AG: You could say that, but it's also poetry. A little more clearly, it would be "poetry displaying characteristics of meditation"..

Student: That, that's...

AG: Including ambition to meditate.

Student: What?

AG: Including ambition to meditate, which is only one of the characteristics. The other characteristic is that if you do it, you see something (or you see the silence too!)

Spontaneous Poetics - 65 (William Carlos Williams 9)

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Student: Allen, I've heard a lot about that poem of Williams about a cat walking on a fence. Do you think you could find that one?

AG: A poem about a cat walking on a fence?


Student: Yeah.


AG: I could find it somewhere but it would take a while and I would spend so much time looking over it that everybody would get bored and think I was a drag.


Student: (Then) don't.


AG: I think it ends with the cat putting his feet into a flower-pot, stepping carefully off. Just like the same mindfulness (of) the sparrow alighting (and) disturbing only one branch, the cat very mindfully stepping, perhaps off the fence, or over the window-sill, putting one foot into a flower-pot and then another..


Student: Allen, I think the first line is "The cat steps over.." So if you want to look at just the first line...


AG: Unfortunately, there's no list of first lines in this book, there's only a list of titles. It's a defective book. I mean, it's a defective hardcover edition of Williams


Student: I think that's one poem where Williams kind of makes you hear the silence..


AG: Yeah


Student: ..because as the cat's putting his feet... in the flower-pot, it's not making any sound at all.. and you can hear it not making any sound...


AG: Um-hmm - Yeah, that one has that same silence as the one called "Silence" (the one about the sparrow)..


Let's see if there's anything else of importance. Oh, there's a funny one that's just like (Charles) Reznikoff, a little later on here - "The Horse" - Oh yeah, there's a couple - "The Maneuver" - more about little birds. He did it, apparently, continuously over a period of years - observe the birds, the sparrows, around him, or starlings. [Allen reads "The Maneuver" - "I saw the two starlings/ coming in toward the wires/But at the last,/ just before alighting, they/ turned in the air together/ and landed backwards!/ that's what got me - to/ face into the wind's teeth"] - So this is perhaps less literary - "That's what got me" - It's called "The Maneuver" -  "turned in the air together/ and landed backwards!/ that's what got me" - that's really American tongue there - " to/ face into the wind's teeth"].

"The Horse" - [Allen next reads "The Horse" - "The horse moves/ independently/without reference/ to his load..".."his nostrils/like fumes from/ the twin/ exhausts of a car"] - that's a similie - "like" - he indulged himself in a little simile, but it's a simile between local horse and (an) even more contemporary artifact, the car (so he doesn't feel it's too far-fetched, that idea, in terms of ordinariness.

(Next), a very beautiful piece, which includes perfect description (as of a flower) and perfect reproduction of conversation (because part of the object that Williams is perceiving is his own speech the speech of others). So, language, speech, is, in itself, a starling, a bird, or a set of birds whose behavior could be observed. The way people talk can be watched as closely as roses or starlings, and reproduced on the page with equal accuracy. This is called "The Act" (which is a poem I think Robert Creeley observed at great length, profited from, (and) imitated in his first book. Creeley's earliest poems are very directly arrived (at) by these very short later poems of Williams. Creeley's titles are very similar, in fact. [Allen reads Williams' poem,  "The Act" - "There were the roses in the rain./ Don't cut them, I pleaded/ They won't last, she said/ But they're so beautiful/ where they are./ Agh, we were all beautiful once, she/ said,/ and cut them and gave them to me/ in my hand."] - So here's a combination of..     well, there's a little description - "There were the roses in the rain" - sort of like a very little fast Cezanne notation (or like Picasso or Matisse - more Matisse - a little Matisse line - very abstracted by that point) - "There were the roses in the rain" - But his attention is really on the qualities (well, what's said, of course, the content of the speech, but the way it's said). Because I think this was probably the first time, one of the first times perhaps, if not the first time in American diction, that they used the word "agh" - spelled A-G-H. That took a certain amount of courage in those days to say "Agh", to actually have him say, or hear his wife say "Agh" and include that, instead of amnesia-izing the "agh" and having her say "ah.." or "oh.. we were all beautiful once" - "Agh, we were all beautiful once" - that "agh" that carries exactly the right.. its the mot juste, it carries just the precise feeling in America for that mudra, that vocal gesture.  So he was a great teacher for that, I think, a great teacher of definite perception of speech. So the lesson out of this is (that) you (should) pay attention. If you pay attention to your own speech and.. when you're writing, just do it in the order that your mind suggests (but making use of accidents of speech, or of idiosyncratic noises, idiosyncratic syntax, idiosyncratic meaning, (broken or non-symmetrical, or not, by the rules), or invented, or (by) chance, or accidental, or customary (like "uh"?) [ the interrogative "uh"?]


Student: Was Williams familiar with Chinese at all


AG: Was Williams familiar with Chinese?. I don't think he read Chinese, although he read, as I said, lots of Chinese poetry and translations through Pound, and through the vogue of (the) Chinoiserieof those years in letters, but he didn't know Chinese directly, no. I think at one time, around this time actually, come to think of it, he worked with a young translating poet from San Francisco who used to hang around City Lights, and he was corresponding with him. The kid - I forgot his name..David Wang, perhaps - was a friend and correspondent of Ezra Pound and was corresponding also with Williams. I think Pound had sent David Wang to Williams, and they had a little project of doing some Chinese translations according to Poundian-Williamsesque principles, but that was the closest he got. So probably David Wang sent him some written characters with the translations, some pages with the Chinese characters and translations, so he could see the pictures, with the pictures explained. 


[tape ends here - new tape inserted - class continues - audio for this continuation available at http://archive.org/details/Allen_Ginsberg_class_on_William_Carlos_Williams_and_prosody_June_1976_76P051 -  the first four-and-a-quarter minutes]      


AG: Well. There's one other piece of language here,  him trying to make up sounds and talk English and talk American (and) write a little bit of Romantic poetry -"The Injury"  [Allen reads William Carlos Williams' poem "The Injury" in its entirety - "From this hospital bed/ I can hear an engine/ breathing - somewhere/ in the night:/ -Soft coal, soft coal,/ soft coal!/ And I know it is men/ breathing/ shoveling, resting - "..."rounding/ the curve - /the slow way because/ (if you can find any way) that is/ the only way left now/ for you."] - Meaning, I think, men, sick and dying, perhaps, in bed. There is no way out except in this world and the details of this world, fading, perhaps. I was interested in that poem (for) just the refrain - "-Soft coal, soft coal,/ soft coal! - the American-ess of those words.

So this brings up the question, then, if you have these perceptions, specific detail, and you have a mind to observe the perceptions, and you have a mind to observe the appropriate language equivalent to the perceptions (language that comes from the same world as the detailed perception, language that comes from the real world of the senses and speech), what's poetry? - or, how do you make a poem out of all that? - or, to put it even more succinctly, if you could find the words, say, if you had the words (you could get the words, I guess, from your mind), how do you put them out on the page (if the subject of the poem is not the form - like the sonnet)? If the subject is not the ballad, if the subject is not the inherited form but the subject is the subjective form, if the subject is made up by your own body, if the subject is drawn only from your own mind, with no reference to classical rhythms of speech or classical methods of perception, or classical methods of perception, in the sense of, say, generalization, abstraction, philosophy - that's not exactly classical. Let's see..the deteriorated classical of the 19th Century, the classical style of the 19th Century, which had become sing-song (especially in America), abstracted (except for Whitman, of course, and a few others - Stephen Crane, some Melville, some Emily Dickinson) - how do you arrange the patterns on the page? how do you arrange the speech-patterns on the page?

And so here we go into the question of Williams' prosody, which is a matter of exercise of the same mindfulness of detail as his exercise of mindfulness in perceiving the subject-matter, or the objects of the poems, that he writes about in the poems. 

Spontaneous Poetics - 66 (William Carlos Williams 10 - Williams' Prosody)

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William Carlos Williams
[William Carlos Williams (1883-1963)] 


AG: I've been thinking of what are the different considerations of mindful open-verse forms. And I made a very brief list (composed of elements we've already discussed) just as academic reference-points. If one were to analyze (William Carlos) Williams' versification, what are the different inclinations he has in mind when he's putting the words down on the page, or re-arranging them on the page?

First, we had consciousness of syllables and syllable count, as he practiced, and his friend Marianne Moore practiced. That is to say, arranging phrasings on the page with four syllables, four syllables, four syllables, four syllables, or four-three, four-three (just syllables, without any question of stress, accent, or vowel-length quantity). He was very conscious of that because Marianne Moore was doing that and then Kenneth Rexroth used that method for composing poetry. (The) seven syllable line. It was also something suggested by Chinese, Tibetan, and Japanese poetry, which is counted by syllables. That was in the air. People knew about that. So that there was an increasing mindfulness of syllables - actually hearing syllable-by-syllable, when-you-are-thinking-of-the-line-even-when-you-are-pro-nouncing-it-and-especially-when-you-are-arranging-it-on-the-page. So, after a while, the ear hears syllables, and for those whose breath is articulated into mindful speech and those that are so mindful of speech that they can even teach speech, there is a question of how you talk and how you mouth your syllables and how you pronounce your consonants and clarify your "p"'s and use your lips, when you are talking. And that makes you more and more conscious of syllables  (especially if [like Bob Dylan] you pronounce it aloud before audiences of 27,000 people, because, with all that machinery, they (need to have) to be able to hear! - or, (even) over a microphone at the Museum of Modern Art, it's necessary to articulate, so that each syllable is heard clearly, so that there is no mistake in the intention of each syllable). So that's a lesson that was learned by Bob Dylan certainly. Williams had some sense of that playfulness of mouthing which goes along with consciousness of count of syllable. It's just a quality you develop - both of pronouncing and pronouncing clearly and precisely and using your mouth, as I was just taught an hour ago (sic). But that leads to consciousness of syllables, that is consciousness of pronunciation leads you to be more conscious syllable-by-syllable, and syllable-by-syllable mental awareness leads you to be more prounounce-y. Marianne Moore did do stanza forms by counting syllables and making arrangements of different butterfly-wing-like patterns of syllables, stanza to stanza.
Do you know her work, B? [Allen addresses one of the students] - Marianne Moore? - If you look at a page of her work, there'll be some.. they'll be arrangements. Maybe I'll bring one of her poems in next time, or [Allen looks into a poetry anthology] - there probably is one  (in) here. But I don't want to go into the syllable-count as a field, yet. I just want to make this list.

Obviously, second, there is accent, which is built into earlier English prosody so we hear it all the time. And when we talk, there is accent in the talk. I think Williams at one point said it was... what's the opposite of dactylic?.. anapestic.. what is anapest? - duh-duh-dah

Student: Duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah , duh-duh-dah

AG: If-you-think, when-you-hear, when-I-talk, you-can-say, it-might-be, some kind of dactyl. Williams thought that American speech tended toward dactylic, I believe..what did we decide?

Student: Anapestic

AG: Anapetic. He said one or the other. I've forgotten. Duh-duh-dah - was that anapest?

Student: Yeah

AG: I think he said (that) American speech tended toward anapestic. Just if you want to refine your ear a bit and get out of writing duh-dah, duh-dah, duh-dah, duh-dah - iambic or trochaic - if you want to get out of writing two-syllable rhythms, you might vary things a bit by getting into the custom of being mindful of anapest - duh-duh-dah.
Does everybody know the difference between.. does everybody know iamb,trochee, dactyl, and anapest? Raise your hand if you don't know those. How many is that there? [pointing to another student] (JS)]? 

Student: I can't.. I mean, if you asked me which was which, I couldn't say.  

AG: But you've got the basic principle down. (Yes?) We don't have a blackboard. I forgot to order up a blackboard..

Student: Would you like a blackboard?

AG: WEll, I'll do it abstractly.  Yeah, I'd love a blackboard. I'm sorry I didn't think of it before.. (I) forgot..(B) and I went over this material, actually, Sunday night.. Well, we'll get (back) to it when we have something visual. I don't want to get too hung up on it.
Not everybody knows that the basis of traditional English poetry and song was the count of accents, and these are the different accentual systems, consisting of  duh-dah, duh-dah, duh-dah, duh-dah, duh-dah - (is iambic) - and dah-duh, dah-duh, dah-duh, dah-duh - (that's trochaic) - duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah (anapestic) - dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh (dactylic). Those are the simplest and the nomenclature is taken from Roman and Greek forms, Roman and Greek count (which was (a) count of vowel-length, not of accent, originally, vowel-length). Yeah? 


Student: Do you know if there's any particular reason those particular rhythms became standards? - like, of all the myriad rhythms that could be used?. When I think of those particular ones..(so) for some reason they got this following or something...

AG: Well, it's a great mystery. Because they don't seem to follow American speech. And yet they're imposed on the forms of American speech to compose poems. But they don't seem to follow the forms of American speech. If you listen, you can hear the tongue tripping on a different rhythm. So.. It is said that they are the basic rhythms of English speech, but I wasn't around when they were speaking it, when they evolved that system of notation, evolving it out of classical models of notation of quantity of speech, that is the vowel-lengths, attention to vowel-lengths, as they did in Greek and Latin, which we were talking about earlier in the term when (GT) was reciting Homer. 

So there is vowel-length, then, as another element of when you're mouthing, as well as particularity of consonant pronunciation, there's also the long charm of vowel-mouthings - opening your mouth somewhat and "halling" your voice, or making a theatrical.. making a concert-hall of your open mouth, and filling your open mouth with a  big "ah", "oh", "ay","ee", "eye", "oh", "you" (like, "I-i-i-i-di-ot Wind/ blowing round in circles around your skullll/ from the Grand Coulee dam to the Capitolll".."You're an idiot, babe, lt's a wonder you can even still now breatttthhhe" - that's Dylan's "Idiot Wind", as he developed the vowel-elongations in later singings, after the original recording [Allen slightly misquotes the line here to make his point])...it finally got to be "I-i-i-i-i--diot Wind" (as "Like A Rolling Sto-oh-oh-oh-ne", or whatever the tone is). That's sort of..music, finally - that vowel-awareness and vowel-energy and vowel-physicality is the musical-tune element of poetry (or the melopoeic part of poetry). 

[A blackboard arrives, and Allen returns to stress notation, marking it out on the blackboard] - Now, the system of notation generally used  - two, three, four, five - no - this is a light, that's a heavy accent - your accents - you've (all) seen these around haven't you? - all over - most everyone has seen all this around - Is there anyone who's never seen this put down on the blackboard? - huh? - ok - so that's iambic - and dah-duh, dah-duh, dah-duh, dah-duh - trochaic - This is iambic pentameter - pente - five - pente-meter - five-meter - five of each - trochaic - tetra-meter - four - Let's see, we had our anapest - duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah - What's that? anapestic?..

Student: Tetrameter?

AG: No, no, that's hexameter - hexa-meter - six - six feet - duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah, duh-duh-dah - six feet (because it was a dance rhythm originally - that's why we have the poetic "foot", because these were originally danced to in the Greek choruses. So the chorus would sweep across the stage going duh-duh-dah-dah, or whatever more complicated beat they might have like dah-duh-duh-dah-dah, dah-duh-duh-dah, dah-duh-duh-dah-dah, and at the same time chanting syllables to fit the meter. So that's why we have what we call the poetic foot, because it originally comes from dance) [points to a blackboard notation] (And) this is what? Anapestic?

Student:  And that's what American speech is supposed to be like?

AG: [mock-exasperated] "Why-you-fool!" - "don't-you-know?" "can't-you-hear?" - That's an excited speech. Anapestic is very often for excited speech, ecstatic speech - "Why-you-fool" - "Don't-you-hear" -  "Can't-you-tell" - "Oh-shut-up" - "It-is-on", or "Get-it-on".. is anapestic  "Get it on" would be anapestic. So there are elements of American, as Williams said, that stick(s) to that pattern - "when-you-talk", "there's-sometimes" "to-come-out" "in-that-way".

Student: "If-you-try"

AG   : "If-you-try", "If-you-hear","Then-it's-clear", "So-what's-here"? "What's-up-here"?
Dactylic - dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh, da-duh-duh, dah...  Well, that's enough - dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh, da-duh-duh, dah - Wait dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh - that would be dactylic trimeter - thrice - three - tri-meter - Any of them can be monometer (one), dimeter (two feet), trimeter (three feet), tetrameter (four feet), pentameter (five feet), hexameter (six feet), septameter (seven feet), octameter (eight feet), novameter? - Dactylic trimeter. My father specialized in writing iambic dimeter. "When verse is terse/ it's zest is best,/ so I shall try,/ to hammer my stammer,/ and beat it neat,/exact, compact". Or what remains to be done is maybe to flesh those paradigms (the word for these pictures, analyses of the rhythm, (they), I think, are called "paradigms", or can be used with the word "paradigm" - nice word - like the word "spectral" is a nice word, "paradigm" is a nice word, it's the spectral form of the meter.
Wyatt - yes (Sir Thomas Wyatt) - "Forget not yet the tried intent" - Wyatt, that I was reading earlier, that would be iambic. Trochaic? - "Had we never loved sae kindly" [Robert Burns] probably would sound like that - "had we never loved sae kindly" - Anapest? - We've had anapest in our speech now, but, "With the dew on his brow and the rust on his mail" is (Lord) Byron.  These are examples I'm taking from the back of the Norton Anthology, which has a little summary of all this. Dactyl? - "Black were her eyes as the berry that grows on the thorn by the wayside [Longfellow] would be the dactylic six-foot meter.
I got into this because (B) here [Allen points to student], who is German, wanted to know what were the basic meters of the American or English language, and I hadn't even tried to teach them before (or have, but not in any kind of orderly, form, and I haven't developed a way of teaching it, but, apparently, some people don't know it exactly), so (we) might as well put it up on the blackboard. (L), for example, [Allen points to another student], you've never gone through this, have you ever?

Student: I remember vaguely...

AG: And.. Does it make sense now?

Student: Yeah

AG: It's easy. No big deal, actually. Because what's interesting are the more complicated meters. "Howl" is written in much more.., basically, stress meters, to a great extent , but they're Greek dance rhythms and (have) names which I don't know, like amphibrach or choliambic - which are like the choliambic dancing. I don't know actually what they are, in terms of their.. if you were to analyze them, but.. a line like "Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows!/ Moloch whose factories creek and smoke in the fog!, Moloch whose..."  I've forgotten "Howl" (!), so, I can't use that an example anymore, can't remember it! -  ["Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Moloch whose skyscrapers stand in the long streets like endless Jehovah's..."] -  "Moloch! Moloch! Nightmare of Moloch! Moloch the loveless!/ Mental Moloch! Moloch the heavy judger of men!/ Moloch the incomprehensible prison!/ Moloch the crossbone soulless jailhouse and Congress of sorrows/ Moloch whose buildings are judgement!..." - I really don't remember it, so, (I'll) leave it alone.  So those are in more complicated, longer meters, not just the maximum we've got to, (which) is three parts - what do they call it? - arsis and thesis - I think this is arsis and thesis within the meter. Interestingly enough, the two parts of the iambic meter are arsis and thesis.



Student: Allen?

AG: Yes

Student: Did you learn the Greek dance rhythms before you began "Howl"?

AG: No, they are intuitive to the body, I think (though I had them from Shelley, Hart Crane, Vachel Lindsay, some MiltonandShakespeare - ecstatic poetry) - and then from my own vocal-chords, and dancing, and jacking-off under bridges (the rhythms that you get into in jacking-off, actually, or in fucking, or.. they're basic body-rhythms these rhythms, like "pump-pump-pump, pump-pump-pump" - basic orgasmic rhythms, I think, so they just run through the body. Also they're inevitable, I think. If you're going to hear accents, you'll either hear it light or heavy. If there's going to be accents, there's going to be difference, so it'll be light or heavy. So, accent - we've got all that, for the moment, dealt with in a rudimentary form. Anybody who wants to know anymore, just come (and) see me. Syllables, accents, vowels..  

[to be continued..] 
Audio for the above is available at http://archive.org/details/Allen_Ginsberg_class_on_William_Carlos_Williams_and_prosody_June_1976_76P051, starting at approximately four-and-a-quarter minutes in and through to approximately twenty-four-and-a-quarter minutes 

    Friday's Weekly Round Up - 123

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    Allen Ginsberg, S.F. 1994.

    [Allen Ginsberg, San Francisco 1994 - photograph by Chris Felver (from the Berg Collection at the
    New York Public Library


    Belatedly noting the passing (he died April 11, aged 86) of the noted free-speech lawyer, Edward De Grazia, "one of the country's foremost advocates of the First Amendment, championing the causes of writers, publishers, film-makers and others who challenged legal and moral conventions" (as his Washington Post's obituary-note succinctly puts it). 
    De Grazia was the author of the wonderfully-titled, (and wonderfully-comprehensive), Girls Lean Back Everywhere -The Laws of Obscenity and the Assault on Genius (the source of that title, by the way - a quote from Jane Heap, who, along with Margaret Anderson, her fellow-editor at The Little Review, was, in 1920, ignobly subjected to criminal prosecution for publishing episodes from James Joyce's Ulysses) - "Mr Joyce was not teaching early Egyptian perversions, nor inventing new ones.", she astutely observed. "Girls lean back everywhere, showing lace and silk stockings...men think thoughts and have emotions about these things everywhere - seldom as delicately and imaginatively as Mr (Leopold) Bloom - and no one is corrupted".  

    Ed De Grazia
    [Edward De Grazia (1927-2013)]


    "I met Allen Ginsberg in the fall of 1964 on the eve of the Boston trial of William Burroughs'  Naked Lunch", De Grazia writes. "Allen helped Burroughs write Naked Lunch and helped me to orchestrate the novel's defence....After the trial we took a train back to New York together and became friends and allies.."  (For more of De Grazia's memories of Allen and his pivotal testimony in that ground-breaking Boston trial see here.) - Allen, De Grazia recalls, "talked virtually without interruption for nearly an hour about the structure of Burroughs' novel and about the social and political importance of its images and ideas -  It occurred to me (then) that Allen understood the novel even better than Burroughs did"

    Richie Havens
    [Richie Havens (1941-2013)]

    Another loss - legendary guitar-player and singer Richie Havens passed away this week. Don't know how many of you out there know the Allen Ginsberg connection but, early in his career, before turning to music, Havens was a young, aspiring "Beatnik poet" in the coffee-houses of Greenwich Village. It was Allen, and Allen's enthusiasm, that was instrumental in setting him up on the road to a life-time career of performing -  "Yes, I used to come from Brooklyn, you know", he told NPR's Scott Simon, in a radio-interview back in 2008, "We'd sit in the Gaslight and all that and listen. And he [Allen] used to come over and look at our..books (that) we had on the table, and finally he says to us, "what's in those books? And we said, "poetry", you know. He says, "get up there". So I ended up on stage in the Gaslight.." "We used to see them [the Beats] just about every night. (Jack) Kerouac was there and quite a few (of the) guys [sic]..." 

    Another  'Sixties memory, buried in a more generalized article (about Kenneth Koch and Jorge Luis Borges!) comes from Bruce Cowin (recalling his student days at Columbia and college radio). Allen agreed to appear on his radio show, Cowin recalls, "on condition that we buy him dinner". The interview lasted about an hour, but was, regrettably, never broadcast - "because "The Change" [the poem Allen had just written and chose to start with that night] began with the word "Shit" - and went on from there" [pedantic editorial note - the poem, at least in its published form, doesn't actually contain the word "shit", but there's plenty in it that, from the first stanza on, ("sucking/his cock like a baby crying Fuck/me in my asshole"!) - that would certainly (and in those early days, 1963, 1964), nix it for the censors].

    City Lights 60th Anniversary? - here's an interesting article fromHighbrow magazine

    Two more reviews of Hal Willner's "Kaddish" (from Richard Scheinin in the San Jose Mercury News) and James Patterson (in the Bay Area Reporter).

    Two more interviews, in the seemingly-never-ending stream of Beat-related interviews published on Michalis Limnios'  Blues.Gr(eece) site -  Corso-scholar Kirby Olsonand Kerouac scholar Gerald Nicosia.

    & Steven Berger reviews Hilary Holladay's American Hipster - A Life of Herbert Huncke for Edge on-line here

    Text and Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll

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    The recent publication of Simon Warner's quaintly-titled, monumental (500+ pages) tome, Text and Drugs and Rock 'N' Roll, had us thinking again about lineage and connections and those issues - "Was rock culture the natural heir to the activities of the Beats? Were the hippies the Beats of the 1960s? What attitude did the Beat writers have towards musical forms and particularly rock music? How did literary works shape the consciousness of leading rock music-makers and their followers? Why did Beat literature retain its cultural potency with later rock musicians who rejected hippie values? How did rock musicians use the material of Beat literature in their own work?" - Simon Warner, journalist, broadcaster, and lecturer in Popular Music Studies at the University of Leeds in England, was the editor of 2005's Howl For Now - A Celebration of Allen Ginsberg's Epic Protest Poem, and some of the material from that book re-appears in a different form here, as well some of that earlier gathering's illustrious contributers, notably David Meltzer(who wrote the forward to the Howl For Now book) and Steven Taylor(who wrote the introduction). 

    Howl for Now

    Meltzer (from the new book - the actual quote comes from a profile Warner made of him in 1998 for Beat Scene) - "I think I was the conduit for Ginsberg and (Michael) McClure to get in touch with (Bob) Dylan. I suppose at that point [circa 1964] I was the instrument. (Lawrence) Ferlinghetti, Ginsberg and McClure wanted the cultural power of the music. They had that power to a point, but the music added to those possibilities. For Dylan too, at that stage in his career it was also expedient to be identified with them. It created this extended community"
    Taylor (from a piece on Allen's 1965 visit to Liverpool) - "Ginsberg would have said Liverpool was the center of consciousness or whatever, because of  The Beatles. He had a crush on them, just as he had on Dylan. Young men of obvious talent and massive fame. Al was what we call a star-fucker. And he was right, Liverpool was a vortex of consciousness, on account of (John) Lennon, for my money."
    The interview with Taylor (alongside another Beat Scene profile of him) would be worth the price of admission alone, but the book contains several other invaluable extended interviews, with such figures as McClure, David Amram(recollectingPull My Daisy), and, most interestingly, the late Larry Keenan. It was Keenan, who famously shot, for example, this picture: 


    [Michael McClure, Bob Dylan and Allen Ginsberg, San Francisco, 1965 - photo by Larry Keenan]

    (see also the picture on Text and Drugs and Rock 'N' Roll's cover)

    Larry Keenan: "Everybody wanted to be Dylan so bad, it was amazing. Look at that photo over there of McClure, Dylan and Ginsberg, They all wanted to be Dylan so hard in that photo, it's incredible, you know?" 

    "(So) the case for Ginsberg's connection to the rock scene", Warner writes, "and the countercultural flow, even if we only outline his links to Dylan and the Beatles, the two major acts, after all, to come to the fore in the mid-1960's, is hard to dispute. Nor can we dismiss the pro-active efforts of the singer and the group to trigger and strengthen their links with the poet over many years"

    And from the 6o's, to the '70's and '80's - As we've previously notedhere and here, "Allen was a punk rocker". Steven Taylor again: "I did hang out a bit with a band called The Stimulatorsin New York City who included Denise Mercedes, who was Peter Orlovsky's girlfriend but also a really good guitar player, who was also a friend of Mick Ronson and Bob Dylan. Bob gave her a guitar and Mick gave her a Marshall amp and she went and played with Rat Scabies (of The Damned) for a while [in 1978] in England. And when she came back.. she had become a different musician  and had become very powerful..and started this terrific band..." 
    The Stimulators (and later Steven's own punk band, The False Prophets) were constant visitors and guests, during those years, at Allen's Lower East Side New York apartment. 
    His connect to (indeed, subsequent recording with) The Clash(the result of him being turned on to them by Steven) further consolidated his "punk cred".
    Steven again: "You know, you think of punk as a sort of rock 'n' roll purist, in the sense that you see it as an alternative voice, a democratic voice, an opportunity for the under-priviliged to speak. And he [Allen] saw it that way too, and he was much more articulate about it than I could ever be... Yes. Primitive. A notion of a kind of neo-primitivism which he was interested in, where he would talk about, say, the punk kids walking around with feathers in their ears, going back to a kind of native American sense, or their understanding of neo-primitivist anarchist politics, and doing it, doing it yourself. DIY...which he connected..to underground cinema of the 1950s and 1969s, and to poetry too.."  

    Warner's book, coming out of England, aside from the Liverpool chapter, has, undoubtedly, the most comprehensive survey of "British Beat" (interviews withMichael Horovitz, Pete Brown,Kevin Ring..), as well as informative Q & A's with American Beat scholars, Levi Asher and Jonah Raskin, and a whole lot more. 

    Jonah Raskin (conflict of interests? - no, not really!) gets to blurb the book:
    "At long last, an electrifying exploration of the Beat Generation writers and the wild guitarists and poetic songwriters who transformed world culture. Bravo to Simon Warner for breaking down all the sound barriers and for bridging the literary and musical geniuses of our time. Hail Hail Text and Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll"

    Spontaneous Poetics - 67 (William Carlos Williams 11)

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    [William Carlos Williams (1883-1963) - Photograph by Jonathan Williams - from "A Palpable Elysium: Portraits of Genius and Solitude

    (Continuing with Allen Ginsberg's class on "Spontaneous Poetics" at Naropa Institute, from June 28 1976)

    AG: Breath-stop is the next measuring concept. In (William Carlos) Williams case, and in Robert Creeley's case, and in my case, and in Charles Olson's case, and in the practice of many modern poets, one way they divide the line when they're doing free verse is.. (because these are all the elements, still, in open-form verse, (that) I'm talking about, saying there's a shadow of a syllable count, there's a shadow of accent, the shadow of vowel-awareness (and) there is a definite practice of breath-stop). That's always been part of poetry, particularly part of song. The other night  (several friends) were (over in my apartment) and (we were) sight-reading (Thomas) Campion songs from the original music (which  really got much (so) better than when we (first) started with Campion, (earlier in) the term). We had a whole musical group, with flute, that can do it now, some Campion (If anybody's interested, it might be good, some time or other (in these lectures), to get back to song, and have it (them) performed more accurately for the breath than the Campion songs that I was reading (more accurately than we started at the beginning). But I was noticing that, in song, they were discussing where do they take the breath? - breathing the old ancient music - there were technical discussions of where the breath was to be taken. And were there breath marks in those music sheets?

    Student: (Well, not per se) that's usually something you determine either within yourself or with a teacher..

    AG: Yeah 

    Student: ... wherever it's convenient... (taking a breath at) the end of a phrase.. and..

    AG:  That's part of the oral transmission...

     Student: Yeah

    AG: ...rather than the written. Well, I think that there are some notes. There's no notation to show breath in traditional music of any kind that you know of? No mark or notation? 

    Student: There is..there's a mark very similar to the "light" [accentual mark], except it's more like a hill than a valley..

    AG: And (so) then, there is no definite notation that can be used..?

    Student: No, I've never seen it in any printed music (manuscripts) 

    AG: I've noticed that in the practice of trying to vocalize from the music sheets, a good deal of discussion was (about) where do you take your breath?

    Student: (For flute)..they use a mark.. [Another Student - they do?] ...where you take a breath..

    AG: Yeah, I imagine, in almost any wind instrument.

    Now, the marks for where you take the breath in poetry have always been the comma, the period, and the line. I mean space - space-arrangement on the page - indicates the breathing. I think without the control of continuous comma punctuation and semi-colons, colons, with the advent of the dash as an all-purpose gap of mind or speech, in meditation as in action, there also is this newer preoccupation with the line-break as the spot where you take another breath, or you have a breath-stop and you don't need a comma. And Creeley's practice was, he would write little funny couplets like - "If  you were going to get a pet/ What kind of animal would you get?" - with a definite breath-stop in-between the two verses (lines) of the couplet. What he wanted was (for) the two verses of the couplet (to) be so far apart and so discrete and so independent of each other that you could pronounce one - "If you were going to get a pet" -  and then take a walk around the block and come back and say - "What kind of animal would you get". So his image of the breath-stop was you take a walk around the block and then you come back. A real definite stop-gap, for the mind, for the speech. That's his style, that's his own personal idiosyncratic speech. He, being Bostonian by nature, a stammerer of some sort, a stammerer and tipsy Catholic Irishman. That's the way you talk in Boston, some time - a little hesitancy, short lines, (with) space between - walk around the block before the next thought . So there's the breath-stop as a measure. Yes?

    Student: Something strange..  I've noticed, in reading Creeley though, that his lines are so short it's almost like a hyperventilation..if you take a breath between each line.

    AG: Well, I think sometimes that goes on in Creeley, And that's quite literal. You see, he has this idiosyncratic breathing, connected with the breath-stop, or certain words , but I think very often there is a real breath...

    [tape ends, but picks up again on next side]

    So the breath-stops are used different ways. You can have it for short, or you can have it for a different effect, the kind of effect that you get in Charles Olson very often, in which he's a very thoughtful man, full of intellect, and it takes a little time for the sentences to formulate themselves in his head. But when they do formulate themselves, they come out and they come out long, and they'll stretch from the margin from the left-hand-side of the page and go all the way over to the right-hand-side margin, and continue. But when they continue, there's a break, so that's another line, so "and continue" will balance that whole other streak of language I just emitted. So Olson's Maximus Poems, if you notice, are arranged on the page to fit long and short breaths, physiologically emitted by the poet, either in the scratch of a pen on paper, or whether he has to pick up the pen and then continue again with a short line, or how it might be spoken. As I was reading it the other day (those few Songs from The Maximus Poems), I don't know if you noticed, there was a great variability and nervousness, so to speak (not uneasiness-nervousness, but nervousness of riding along on pure impulse and a very sensitive projecting outwards and advancing into the thought (or into the air) with the words, and then stopping, and containing all the hesitancies of thinking on your feet or writing directly as the mind produces images, or as the mind moves (So "moves" there, would be one line - "as the mind/moves" - which is just like "you sing also you who also want. You have to look that up on the page in Don Allen's anthology). So for a sample of the breath-stop as a measure of variable line-lengths, or a regulation if not a measure, a regulation of the line on the page, according to the breath-stop in a most variable form.  Yes? 

    Student: Allen, it seems that Robert Duncan seems to have refined this to a fine art.

    AG: Yes?

    Student: I remember (when I saw him read) the way he was sort of conducting himself 

    AG: Yes, well there, he was (probably) cultivating other pulsations of waves of speech, or perhaps even, there to some extent, accents, or, I wonder...

    Student: He said he was counting heartbeat

    AG: Heartbeats, he's counting?

    Student: So he says.

    AG: Incredible. Incredible. So he's counting time by heartbeat. That's something I never thought of. That's really...  literally? .. Where did he say that?.. I forgot.. Did he say that in (an interview) or..?  I guess I just missed that. But that's great. That takes a good deal of diffusion of consciousness throughout the body and mind to be able to do that simultaneously. Maybe he just counts the heartbeats until he begins speaking?.. I see

    Student: As the words are arranged on the page

    AG: As the words are arranged on the page?

    Student: How long a space he takes relates to the length between words on the page.

    AG: And that relates to the number of heartbeats? - The space on the page relates to the length of time he takes to speak between the sentences, and that relates to a count of heartbeat often. Of course, in Olson the length of space on the page, the white space on the page, relates to the time it takes between one sentence or another, or one line and another.
    In (Jack) Kerouac's Mexico City Blues, there's the same principle - large spaces indicating long pauses - spaces for breathing, spaces for the breath, spaces indicating "take a breath", mixed with commas, in Kerouac.

    Another way of dividing the line on the page is dividing it by units of phrasing. Not so much the breath because several units can be in a breath. Perhaps even you could find three units in a breath. Perhaps if you listen to your speech, as you were talking aloud to a dearest friend, you'd come to find that, at certain heart-felt moments (mind dwelling in the heart, meaning heart-felt)  your exposition would exist in triads (as mine just was for about three lines) . That is, though there was one breath, there were perhaps three phrases within the breath, or two phrases within the breath, or one phrase and an isolate word. So there are the spoken phrasings, and one could study those by listening to people talk, or listening to yourself talk, and find little rhythmic units, little squiggly articulations of speech that, after a while, become familiar. Or patterns that you can model your own writing on, or simply take directly from the air and take them to the page, like magic - unique specimens of isolate rhythmic flex. So you can imitate the sound of words in the air, or you can imitate the sound of words in your mind, what is called the "subconscious gossip" often, in Buddhist meditation terms, the literal sound in your mind. As Kerouac says, "The sound of poetry is the sound you hear is the first sound that you would hear if you were standing at a cash register, if you were singing at a cash register with nothing on your mind". The sound in your ear is the first sound you would hear if you were singing at a cash register with nothing on your mind". So you could hear your own sound of your own talk, to yourself.

    And they come in units of speech too - little rhythmic units. So you can divide the line by those rhythmic units and set it out on the page, scoring your own speech, or scoring other speech, or scoring common speech, but taking as a model all of the little idiosyncratic rhythms that don't belong in the schemes of light and heavy accent - iamb, trochee, anapest and dactyl - that don't belong divided into monometer, dimeter, trimeter, tetrameter, pentameter, etcetera. An example - when I visited Williams, he had written on a 1948 prescription pad, "I'll kick yuh eye"  (this is something I've said any number of times because it struck me, repeated any number off times) - "I'll kick yuh eye" -Y-U-H  E-Y-E", he;d written.He said, "How can you scan that in accentual meter?" - But he would appropriate that completely for his poetry.

    There are a number of very short poems which are experiments in listening to little units of speech -"Details" he called them - "Her milk don't seem to../ She's always hungry but../ She seems to gain all right,/ I don't know." - Some mother talking to the pediatrician. -"Her milk don't seem to../ She's always hungry but../ She seems to gain all right,/ I don't know." - "Doc, I bin lookin; for you/ I owe you two bucks./  How you doin'?/  Fine. When I get it/ I'll bring it up to you" - Detail - "Hey!" - great, Hey! - "Hey/ Can I have some more/ milk?/ YEEEAAAASSSSSS!/ - always the gentle/ mother" - (and) - "I had a misfortune in September,/ just at the end of my vacation./  I been keepin' away from that for years./ Just an accident. No foundation/ None at all, no feeling. I'm too/old to have a child. Why, I'm fifty!" - Again, a little rhythmic lyric without the lyre, without guitar, so you couldn't call it lyric, it's not music in the sense of notes of music with it, but, substituting for the old lyric form - "I bought a new/bathing suit/  Just pants/and a brassiere -/  I haven't shown/it/  to my mother/ yet." - "At The Bar" - "Hi! Open up a dozen/ Wha'cha tryin' ta do/charge ya batteries?/  Make it two/ Easy girl!/You'll blow a fuse if/ ya keep that up" - So he was listening to what he heard around him and the specimens of rhythm that weren't in the books already - "To Greet A Letter-Carrier" - "Why'n't you bring me/ a good letter? One with/ lots of money in it./ I could make use of that/ Atta boy! Atta boy!" - I think.. isn't there a.. last year from this poem we evolved a magazine - "Atta boy!" - a  literary magazine
    with student poetry - "Atta boy! Atta boy!"           
    So I was just reading these to exemplify Williams'  study of the units of phrasing and will continue with this subject anon...

    [Audio for the above class is available at http://archive.org/details/Allen_Ginsberg_class_on_William_Carlos_Williams_and_prosody_June_1976_76P051 - beginning at approximately twenty-four-and-a-quarter minutes in]

    Spontaneous Poetics - 68 (William Carlos Williams 12)

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    [William Carlos Williams  (1883-1963)]

    [Allen Ginsberg on Spontaneous Poetics at Naropa Institute continues - from June 30 1976]


    AG: [recalling the previous class] We had gone through syllables, accents, vowel-lengths, some breath-stop, units of phrasing. How much of that did we get?

    Student: You gave some examples and out of Williams, you got so far as the details...

    AG:  Okay. Units of phrasing, consisting in units of vocalized phrasing, Not mental phrasing, but vocalized phrasing, and so I'm making that distinction. The aesthetic would be - clinical study of spoken American-ese. And  a close attention to the details that I read - how phrases are pronounced, how people talk, where they breathe, where they break off, where they leave a sentence incomplete, where they go on like that and stop (as in the poem from The Desert Music which I don't think I read here , where he said, "but I am an old man, I have had enough" - Do you know that (one)? - "The moon which/ they have vulgarized recently/ is still/ your planet/ as it was Dian's before/ you. What/ do they think they will attain/ by their ships/ that death has not/ already given/ them? Their ships/ should be directed inward upon   But I/ am an old man, I/ have had enough"

    Student: What poem is that?

    AG: That's "For Eleanor and Bill Monahan", page 83 of Pictures From Brueghal. Williams had a very similar trip in a poem "The Clouds", which I.. don't know if I read that to you this time around, did I? - the one where "plunging on a moth, a pismire, a..."  (page) 124 in The Collected Later Poems - talking about the imagination being let loose with no fixed center - "he clouds remain/ - the disordered heavens, ragged, ripped by winds/ or dormant, a calligraphy of scaly dragons and bright moths,/ of straining thought, bulbous or smooth,/ ornate the flesh itself (in which/ the poet foretells his own death), convoluted, lunging upon/ a pismire, a conflagration, a . . . . . . ." - He breaks off the end of the poem there with seven dots. So he's reproducing the motion of his own speech - several times - and he very often indicates a dot, which is not a period, but a dot in the middle of the line, to indicate a sentence broken off because the thought is incomplete, or because he just quit, or because he had a stroke, or because his thought was so obvious that it didn't need to be completed for the rest of the sentence. "There are men/ who as they live/ fling caution to the/ wind and women praise them/ and love them for it./ Cruel as the claws of/ a cat"- and then there's two dots following that. He might have said more but he just wanted to chop off, or perhaps he wrote more but in the editing he chopped any further comment off. Just "cruel as the claws of a cat . . "... "and love them for it" - Period. 
    "Cruel as the claws of a cat" - dot, space, dot, space. The dot is not a period because it's not a complete sentence - "Cruel as the claws of a cat" - it's just a comment, a half-sentence comment. He doesn't say, "they are as cruel as a cat". "Cruel as the claws of a cat, aren't they?", perhaps, is what the rest of it was -  "Cruel as the claws of a cat, wouldn't you agree?" -  "Cruel as the claws of a cat, that's what I  think, finally, watching (how) all of these romantic Jimmy Dean's messed up these women's minds.  "Cruel as the claws of a cat". Enough.
    Alright, so, for various reasons, in imitating actual speech, there is a complete break. Exasperation, as in "The Clouds" - "plunging on a moth, a butterfly a pismire, a . . . . . . ." (sic), or coming to the limit of thought. Fatigue and, perhaps, exhaustion of idea -  "Their ships/ should be directed inward upon, but I/ am an old man, I/ have had enough".

    So these were examples of units of phrasing, in extremis, that is, breaking off lines or dividing lines according to speech, even speech which is broken off within itself. So, in other words, to give you an idea, the obviousness of the idea, of measuring the spoken phrases on the white space of the page, measuring them out, laying them out in their proper turns, so that, when read by the eye, they come natural, when read by mouth, they suggest you breathe, or suggest where you take pauses. And that merges with another sense that relates to breath-stop, obviously, but beyond breath-stop it's an analysis of the parts of the speech, because you can have several units phrased within one breath. Very often ordinary speech is that. You might start, look around, particularize what you're going to say, finish. So you might want to break it up that way - beginning, middle, and end, of a thought. Sometimes thought is spoken that way, when people are speaking thinkfully (sic), thinking while they're talking, or, not sure what they're saying, or groping for words or groping for phrases. So that towards the end, he (they) tend to break up the units of phrasing into triadic divisions within a line.

    How many have seen that in (Williams')  Pictures From Brueghel?. I don't know if you can see the page from here. How many have already looked at these poems?.. How many have not? - Okay, that's what Williams came to at the end of his life, so check out Pictures From Brueghel to see how he finally decided to arrange his page.

    Now one reason he decided was that he was already somewhat stricken physically. He did most of his composition on a typewriter, and he had to find a way of reducing the amount of physical activity, finger-work, on the typewriter. It was just an adjustment to the fact that he was part(ly) paralyzed, so that it was difficult to pull the whole machine all the way back to the margin and write short-line poems.  Also, his thought, or speech, came stumblingly, perhaps. He had a little trouble articulating at first. But I think he took advantage of his physical debility (hand-on-typewriter) and his speech difficulty (impediment) and began to find it easier to start on the left-hand margin, type out painfully the first phrase -"her hair"- making mistakes on the typewriter, correcting it - one finger maybe, you know - with one hand. I saw manuscripts of his at that time, and I visited his writing study on the second-floor of his house, where he had a desk. He complained about the difficulty - that is,  it was extremely fatiguing to type. So he had to arrive at a form that would be easiest for him. And probably that physical simplification maybe simplified the mental process in his mind (simplified it, in the sense that it gave him a key to how to arrange, or how the mental process flowed naturally, and what would be the simplest way of notating it). It might have given him a key to notation of his thoughts as they came. So he typed out "her hair" - and then the easiest thing is, right after that, turn the roll of the typewriter one space and stay in the same place where you left off with "her hair" - "is confined by a snood" - so "confined by a snood" - he'd type it out, with a period. And roll the typewriter again, one line more, and maybe push it back a couple (because it was getting toward the margin and he wasn't sure how long his next piece of phrasing would be) - "beside her" - So it's a physical situation, I think, that dictated his arrival at that triadic form. He may have had some experiments before with it (but) I had the impression that it was a good deal dictated by just what he could do (which is not a bad idea! - If you just settle for what you can do, what was simplest for you to do, you'd arrive at something very solid, probably).

    The other night I had another idea about the final triadic form that he arrived at, which he called his "variable American measure", or "variable American foot", or "American measure"...he was concerned with the notion of a "variable foot" (that's what he finally categorized his format, when he finally got it straightened out to one line with three parts, drop down one space each part - is that clear what  I mean? about "drop down one space each part"?). I think he had said - I think I mentioned - he said he thought American speech tended towards the... what was it? anapest? - duh-duh-dah - And if you think, and if you talk, maybe it is. If you're stammering, making it up, but goin' slow, and you're old and you can't do much more, it does fall, if you wait, in that form, for certain kinds of very direct speech (with variations). So you'll have a line like that  - "..Two fair-haired youths/ with alternate speech/ are contending/but her heart is/ untouched/ Now,/ she glances at one,/ smiling, and now, lightly/ she flings the other a thought,/ while their eyes,/ by reason of love's long vigils,/ are heavy but their labors/ all in vain./ In addition/ there is fashioned there/ an ancient fisherman/ and a rock,/ a rugged rock/ on which/ with might and main/ the old man poises a great net/ for the cast.." - Well, I read at random in the style that he might have read. It falls roughly into that pattern of short utterances tending somewhat toward anapestic, tending somewhat to be divided (at least as speech, as spoken speech) into three parts, accent, or weight, tending to fall on the last syllables, if not the last syllable of the three parts of the line. And then there's a counter-stress - "Gray-haired though he be" - the counter-stress of the spoken intonation, giving variability to that. It's not anapestic, really. Maybe (there's) the idea of anapest behind it, but there's an infinite amount of variation in where the weight would be and how he would attack each part of the triad. So it's just an attempt to make a rough line of division of his line of speech, as best he could type it, which is about the same as the best he could talk it in that condition of post-stroke stammering.

    Student: Wasn't that only the last... that was in the (19)60's, wasn't it? 

    AG: 'Fifties and 'Sixties

    Student: He had a stroke that early?

    AG: Journey to Love is 1955. His stroke was about (19)53 or (19)52 - he had several strokes, actually. And (he) was in complete despair, didn't think he could write at all physically, and, at a certain point, didn't think he had anything to write about, because he was preoccupied with the idea that he had cancer of the anus, and he asked me (rhetorically), "Who is interested in me writing poems about my ass?!" [sic] - "ass-hole" is what he said - "Who cares if I want to write poems about my asshole? - So I said, "All young America wants to hear about your asshole, Doc. Write on!" 

    Student: How did he manage to turn out Paterson (given such disability)?

    AG: Most of that was worked out before?

    Student: Before (19)52?

    AG: Most of that had been worked out. I think the earliest Paterson is the (19)40's - maybe some (19)30's even,

    I've gotten a little mixed-up here between breath-stop... I think we've covered breath-stop as the actual breath, and then units of phrasing is different than breath-stop (you could say "units of phrasing within one breath") . And then you've got to figure that you (can) get a certain syncopation of counter-currents running against each other (just as you have the run-on line in normal iambic pentameter) - "A thing of beauty is a joy forever:/ Its loveliness increases, it will never/ pass into nothingness" - Keats - "A thing of beauty is a joy forever" - okay, one line - " it's loveliness increases, it will never - pass into nothingness" - that was (John) Keats. (Keats), I believe, introduced the run-on line like that. It was a prose line, running on, in rhymes, and there was a funny kind of syncopation set up there. "Run-on line" - do you know what I mean? - It's a continuous breath that runs from one line to the next, even though the rhymes interrupt, or the rhymes chime in, but the breath doesn't end with the rhyme, and the pronunciation doesn't end with the rhyme. The pronunciation continues on to the next line. So it sets up a kind of special extra rhythmic pulse  (like in a bongo orchestra! - drums playing different pulses at the same time but in unison they make a more interesting total rhythm). So here you have, in Keats, the rhyme giving one set of clauses, or one set of counts, and you have the stress giving another set of counts, and then you have the speech progression - streak of speech - giving a  completely other rhythmic pulsation that runs through the line into the next line. So here you might have some lines end with the breath-stop, to take a breath, and some lines running on - "The poem/ if it reflects the sea/ reflects only/ its dance/ upon that profound depth/ where/ it seems to triumph/. The bomb puts an end/ to all that" - Well, with "puts an end to all that", he's ended on a breath-stop. "(But) the bomb puts an end to that" - it's a run-on line - "I am reminded that the bomb also is a flower" - So he's got  "I am reminded that the bomb also is a flower", that is "is a flower" goes back to the left-hand margin. 

    [to be continued]                           

    May Day

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    [May Day - street poster design by Eric Drooker]

    May Day. May Day Greetings from The Allen Ginsberg Project! With Allen this day (today) is always a special day. Remembering his pivotal (all-too-brief) tenure (in Prague, in 1965, the "Prague Spring") as "King of May" (Kral Majales) - and also his old IWW, "Wobbly", roots - "America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies/ America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry" - we always take great pleasure in spotlighting this (from Cosmopolitan Greetings - a "parasong" (to use the phrase of the late-lamented Tuli Kupferberg) - Allen's rousing rendition/alternative version of the"(Fifth) Internationale " 


    This poem is dedicated to Billy MacKeever 

    Arise ye prisoners of your mind-set
    Arise neurotics of the Earth
    For Insight thunders Liberation
    A sacred world's in birth

    No more attachment's chains shall bind us
    Mind's Aggression no more rules
    The Earth shall rise on new foundations
    We have been jerks we shall be Fools

    'Tis the Path of Accumulation
    Let each sit on his place
    The International Crazy Wisdom School
    Could save the Human Race

    Spontaneous Poetics - 69 (Burroughs, Voznesensky & Kaddish)

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    Student: Does the thought come to the mind scored? 

    AG: Pardon me?

    Student: Does the thought come to the mind [as per lateWilliams] broken (say) into three lines..?

    AG: Hmm - okay, let's take that up in a minute. That's an interesting question.

    Onto (first, though), the next consideration - which would be distinct from units of vocal phrasing, mouth phrasing - units of mind-thought (which is another element that comes in, when you write - because your notation of what you're saying is a notation of what you speak, but it's also, really, if you're writing silently at your desk, a notation of the thoughts in your mind, not what you spoke at all, but thoughts). Now, oddly, thoughts, as they run through the mind, at least in my own brain-pan, seem to run in units, roughly parallel to breath, roughly parallel to spoken speech. I sit and sort of drowse and hear words running through, phrasings, running through my mind. "It would be nice" - okay - "it would be nice" - and then I had a glimpse of the trees outside - "It would be nice to be outside". "It would be nice to be outside" doing what? - So that's the next thought (that) comes up" - "riding (in) the country with Diane Wakowski in her new car" - so that's a nice long one (that) came all at once from a flash - (she drove me up (once) hitch-hiking)..

    So how do thoughts arrive is the question. Or, how do verbal thoughts arrive in the mind? - and is there any way of notating on the page the actual sequence of verbal thoughts as they come to your mind? Now, I don't know how other people's consciousness works - and, apparently, every consciousness works differently. The balance of the arrangement of rhythmic pulse, rhythmic intelligence, verbal intelligence, picture-intelligence, maybe smell-intelligence, body-English, is maybe a different balance in different brain-pans. (William) Burroughs thinks primarily in pictures, so that his process of notation is actually sitting at a typewriter, looking into the middle distance, seeing pictures in his mind, not hearing words, and then choosing words to describe the pictures. Have I talked about that in relation to Burroughs here? this term?

    Student(s): Yes

    AG: Well, it was one thing that I'll repeat again, because it was my enlightenment on Burroughs' method. 
    I'd known him for twenty years. I was once in Tangier, sitting in his room, watching him write a very beautiful passage, which, I think, was included later in Naked Lunch, about fish-boys in Venice, in the canals, metallic fish-boys in Venice, and then he stopped and he actually had his hands poised over the typewriter, thinking. And I said, "What are you thinking about Bill?" And he said, "Hands pulling in nets from the sea", or, I guess, "Hands pulling in nets from the sea in the darkness" (which I thought was some kind of cosmic image of the hands of God, pulling in the souls from the sea, or something). And I said, "How did you get to see that? Where did you get that?". And he said, "Oh, (I'm) just remembering, in the morning, when you go down on the beach in Tangier, fishermen are pulling in the nets from the ocean, and I just saw their hands pulling in the nets from the sea". So it was just a very everyday, ordinary, picture - but isolated. He saw it in his mind as just the hands pulling the nets, and got a strange kind of perfect poetic isolated beauty, as if it were in the cosmic ocean. And he takes advantage of that sense, of course. I mean, shrewd. So he thinks in pictures, and so his notation on the page is notations of pictures, and, as you notice, the pictures are always changing slightly - dissolving from one picture to another - and there's always this transformation of his images, which they cut in and out - pictures cutting in and out of one another, or dissolving one into another, or fish-boys dissolving into the prows of boats. There's a lot of tricks in Burroughs like that, where, as in a very early image, two boys, lovers, two boys sitting on a park bench in Mexico City, with the musky smell of Mexico City garbage, shit, around them - both of them have hard-ons, and they sort of lean toward each (other) - "Time jumps like a broken typewriter. The boys are old men, their teeth fallen out. They leap back from each other with horror" - I guess it's a picture he saw. It's the sort of thing that would be a visual thing. "Time jumps like a broken typewriter" is also particularly visual. It's a picture he got. How else? He wouldn't have arrived at that except through suddenly getting a little flash of his broken typewriter, the letters all jumbled, a sudden lurch.   So Burroughs thinks in pictures. So I guess his page probably reflects that he's transcribing pictures. I think in words, primarily, which always shocks and dismays him, because he thinks that's real low-grade mentation!)
    Yeah?
















    Student: Anne (Waldman) says something about Burroughs seeing whole pages full of words in his dreams, waking up, and transcribing them.

    AG: Yeah. Sometimes whole pages full of calligraphy (which are not words) also. There's a number of pages in The Exterminator which are reproductions of that - calligraphy, similar to his friend, Brion Gysin's painting. But it's still picture, because he's seeing a page of words . I've had dreams like that, seeing a page of words - not a whole page but stanzas-written-in-fire in my dreams! And then (I) woke up and couldn't find them! I couldn't remember. What did I say? Ezekiel-like flames..

    William S. Burroughs, The Exterminator, Auerhahn Press, 1960, front cover


    Student: Like Blake.

    AG: Yeah. Blake said that he was just etching pictures that he saw, right on(to) the page.

    William Blake, ‘The Head of the Ghost of a Flea. Verso: A Profile and a Reduced Drawing of Milton's First Wife’ c.1819
    [William Blake - The Head of the  Ghost of a Flea (circa 1819)]

    So the question is, how do you think? And then, depending on how you think, what's your appropriate form of notation? So that's again a question of almost Buddhist meditative mindfulness, of observing the brain-pan, observing how your consciousness actually works, and transcribing it, and finding what it is (that) you're transcribing - pictures or words.



    [Andrei Voznesensky and Allen Ginsberg]

    In an elevator in a Moscow apartment, (Andrei) Voznesensky asked me what language I thought in, and I said, "French, Spanish, sometimes, mostly English". And he said, "You do? I think in rhythm." And I suddenly realized he does. Knowing his poetry, there's a kind of rhythmic shoulder-urge back and forth and a hand movement. He probably gets the rhythm first and then fills in the words. Not really a metrical scheme, but a series of urges, which could be expressed by hand and shoulder, or movement of the body, by body-English, and many great poets do have that. I have, occasionally, that impulse, and get, what I guess would be the equivalent of Greek rhythm running through my head and my body - usually in the form of sound - dah-dah dah-dah-dah,. dah-duh-duh-dah-dah, dah-duh-duh-datta-duh, dah-duh-duh-dah - dah-duh-duh-dah-dah, duh, de-dah - which I could analyze, I suppose, but I never bother to analyze it, I just try to reproduce (it) in the words. I have a long poem that I've been sitting around cooking for about ten years about "blasted be Congress and death to the President, cursed be the Supreme Court, goddam finks!' - dah-duh-duh-dah-dah, dah-duh-duh-datta-duh, dah-duh-duh-dah-duh, duh-dah-dah! - as, sort of, like almost a dance-rhythm. Then the rhythms in the second part of "Howl" are like that, and some of the rhythms of "Kaddish" are derived from original rhythmic pulsations in my body, not the mind, but it's the inner ear, I guess you could say, just like musicians hear. The basic rhythms of "Kaddish", a long poem, are derived from hearing the Kaddish read aloud in Hebrew, hearing a pulsation of  duh-dah-dah-duh, dah-duh-duh, dah-duh-duh.. let's see "V'yisnaseh, v'yishador, v'yishalleh, v'yishalloi, sh'meh d'kudsho" - Yeah?

    Kaddish and Other Poems: 1958-1960 (City Lights Pocket Poets Ser... Cover Art

    Student: Does the word "Kaddish" translate as anything, or is it a name that has to...

    AG: It's a Hebrew name for the Mass for the Dead. Kaddish, saying Kaddish, saying ceremonial prayers of the dead with a minyan, or group of nine adults.

    The rhythms in "Kaddish" came as partly derived from a night on metamphetamine at somebody's house who was preoccupied with Jewish studies, reading me the Kaddish - sounds from the Hebrew, plus a lot of Ray Charles that I'd heard for the first time that weekend - "What'd I Say"- remember that? - "It's alright" repeated - "It's alright, it's alright, what'd I say, duh-dah-dah, what'd-I-say - "Magnificent, mourned no more, marred of heart, mind behind, married, dreamed, mortal changed - Ass and face done with murder/ In the world, given, flower-maddened, made no Utopia, shut under pine, almed in Earth, balmed in Lone, Jehovah, accept./ Nameless, One-Faced, Forever beyond me, beginningless, endless, Father in death. Tho I am not there for this Prophecy, I am unmarried, I'm hymnless, I'm Heavenless, headless in blisshood I would still adore/ Thee. Heaven, after Death, only One blessed in Nothingness, nor light or darkness, Dayless, Eternity - /Take this, this Psalm, from me, burst from my hand in a day, some of my Time, now given to Nothing - to praise Thee - But Death/ This is the end, the redemption from Wilderness, way for the Wonderer, House sought for All, black handkerchief washed clean by weeping - page beyond Psalm - Last change of mine and Naomi - to God's perfect Darkness - Death, stay thy phantoms!"    

    Friday Weekly Round Up - 124

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    [Allen Ginsberg and Peter Orlovsky - "A.G & P.O. 5 Turner Terrace, Potrero Hill Housing Project, Peter's kitchen, hot summer day 1956." (Allen Ginsberg Caption) - Photograph c. Allen Ginsberg Estate]

    Well, it's a whole seven days later, but we couldn't resist alerting you to the Doug Ireland skewered review of Steve Finbow's bio (mostly for the clear, where-to-begin, response byOur Allen's Steve Silberman - thanks Steve, for setting the record straight! - or, rather, keeping the record queer!) - see also comments by Jim Cohn and others in the (in this case, essential) "Comments" section following Ireland's, regrettably, misguided piece.


    Ginsberg, Corso, and Peter Orlovsky:  Photo courtesy of Salem State archives
    [Allen Ginsberg, Gregory Corso and Peter Orlovsky at the 1973 Salem State College Jack Kerouac Symposium via Salem State Archives flickr

    Remember the 1973 Jack Kerouac Conference at Salem State?  - Maybe not. We posted footage and transcription from this legendary conference last year - herehere and here
    This year (this weekend), Salem is visiting the Kerouac legacy again. Today (Friday), there's a panel with Ann Douglas, Gerald Nicosia, and Beat-scholar, Matt Theado, followed by a screening ofPull My Daisy (with a special guest appearance byDavid Amram). The event serves as the kick-off to the 2013 Massachusetts Poetry Festival.   

    Here's a quirky thing - an annotated "audience-participation" rendering of Allen's 1956 Berkeley reading of "America" - "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing"

    Speaking of quirky things, Vivid Tribe of Psychics seem to be making good use of Ginsberg material here and here

    More Vintage Audio - Summer 1976 - Naropa Benefit Reading

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    naropa institute




    Another Summer 1976 Naropa poetry reading (following on from here and here). This one took place at the very end of Summer (September 13, to be precise) and was a benefit for the then still-to-be-fully-established Institute - "A reading and musical performance by Allen Ginsberg, Peter Rowan,Michael Brownstein, Philip Whalen,Peter Orlovsky and Anne Waldman"

    The tape begins, approximately six seconds in, with mantric chanting (Allen's harmonium, and flute and mandolin evident in the background) for the first five minutes, setting the stage - AG: "Jeremy here? Jeremy? Is there anything that should be said as we begin? because it's now ten-past eleven" and (off-mike) - "Can we be heard clearly?".  Jeremy Hayward (on behalf of Naropa) then explains the context - "What today is about, in addition to presenting a lot of the things that are going on at Naropa, is about raising $13,000"

    At approximately eight-minutes-and-fifty-five seconds in, Allen begins - AG: "What we will do now, with Lloyd Williams and Peter Rowan, first I’m going to sing one or two dharma blues, then Peter Rowan, who’s a famous pop star, of Rowan Brothers, will – who’s also a disciple of (Buddhism) and a half-decade old meditator - will chant/sing his own mode, some often improvised, then Anne Waldman and Michael Brownstein will be reading, and I’ll try and end by being William Burroughs' ventriloquist and read his section of’ Naked Lunch called "The Talking Asshole".  We have till twelve-thirty. 

    Allen begins with "(a) song, a love song to Bob Dylan, "who believes in God (sic)" - "Lay Down Yr Mountain" This is followed by "Father Death Blues"(with Lloyd Williams on saxophone) - "I've been practicing a blues I played last week, with Lloyd. "Father Death Blues". I played it last week with Karl Berger [on piano]." 

    Photo: Peter Rowan brings his The GRAMMYs nominated Bluegrass band April 6 - had to post this great photo from the archives

    [Peter Rowan]

    Peter Rowan's set begins approximately twenty-two minutes in with a lively instrumental, followed by a song ("When the Iron Bird Flies..") - in hommage and praise to the Navajo("the dharma will come to the land of the Red Man" - "We've heard him with our eyes/We've seen him with our ears") - which concludes with a virtuoso performance of wordless chanting. 
    Allen takes over at approximately thirty-nine-and-a-half minutes in (with an improvised announcement) - AG:  "Thank you Peter Rowan. We'll probably have more of Peter Rowan later on. First of all a short announcement - There's an orange car blocking up the parking-lot -  "If the orange Suburu belongs to you, get out of here and run down there with all you got/Because, unless you remove your orange Suburu out of the parking lot, able to drive, nobody will not" - "Ashley (sic) with straw hat will now make a financial announcement" [A's pitch involves a fund-raising visual arts initiative] - "The poets reading will be Michael Brownstein, Philip Whalen, Anne Waldman, and Peter Orlovsky perhaps, with his banjo, if he gets back in time. Can Michael &  Philip Whalen, sensei, came on the stage. Anne is here. Michael, you’re next – are you prepared with your texts? 
    Michael Brownstein comes in approximately forty-three minutes in and reads, for approximately ten minutes, "one story and two poems"





















    [Michael Brownstein]

    Allen continues the banter - "Remember the purpose of this assembly is to experience the aesthetic pleasure of high art mixed with the flow of brilliant money" -  informs the audience that, so far, they've raised (so far) "slightly over eleven hundred dollars" -
    Philip Whalen


















    [Philip Whalen]

    "The next reader will be Sensei Philip Whalen, (a) great sitter from the San Francisco Soto Zen Center, and Professor of Poetics at (the) Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa Institute" - Whalen comes in, (at about fifty-three-and-three-quarter minutes in), with the witty suggestion - "Maybe we should celebrate about 140 minutes of complete silence, something like that - maybe that’d be a good idea?"), then proceeds to read "Imaginary Splendors","Public Opinions","Monument Rescue Dim","The Turn","I Told Myself Bobbie Spontaneously","Rejoice!" and "October First".




    [Peter Orlovsky]

    AG: "The  next poet-musician will be Peter Orlovsky, professor of bucolic poetics at Naropa Institute" - Peter declares, "I made nineteen pints of raspberry jam before I came here", segue-ing into a version of "Feeding Them Raspberries To Grow".

    Anne Waldman- photo by LaVerne Harrell Clark - University of Arizona Poetry Center

    [Anne Waldman]

    AG: "The next poet is the co-director [of the Naropa Institute] la belle Anne Waldman. [Anne, beginning at approximately 68 minutes in, reads "from a continuing work in Spanish"]

    Allen concludes the proceedings - "The poets will end at twelve-thirty, which is in just ten minutes. As the ventriloquial dummy for Doctor Mabuse, William S. Burroughs, I’m here representing him with a text, which he originally sent me as a sample of his prose in 1956, a routine of Doctor Benway's. [the "Talking Asshole" section from Naked Lunch] (And while you’re listening to this, I want you to consider where you can get more money up out of your pocket, or out of your family [to help benefit Naropa]) 

    Spontaneous Poetics - 70 (Gerard Manley Hopkins)

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    [Gerard Manley Hopkins (1844-1889)]

    Allen Ginsberg's June 30 1976 Spontaneous Poetics class continues

    Student: Allen..

    AG: Yes?

    Student: Would you say (something about) ... more older forms.. ?

    [the tape breaks off here, but resumes, shortly thereafter, with Allen in mid-sentence]

    AG   ...with measure to the normal spoken speech of Shakespearean England. I haven't had that speech in my ear, actually, for real. I just heard it in the artifact of poetry. I assume it must have arisen originally out of some native tongue, but I don't know (because they were messing around a lot with trying to adapt classical measures to English, and there was a lot of constriction involved, probably). Shakespeare blew it open, actually (because Shakespeare's line is so variable that it can be pronounced any way, even though it is iambic - "HOW like a winter has thine absence...", "How like a WINTER has my absence (been) from you", "How LIKE a WINter HAS mine ABsence BEEN", "HOW like a winter has my absence been... - It's actually totally, almost, unrelated). That's a Shakespearean Sonnet - "When to the seasons of sweet silent thought" - "When to the seasons of sweet silent thought" - If you were counting it, iambic -"When TO the SESions of SWEET Silent THOUGHT", but, it's actually, WHEN to the sessions of SWEET, silent THOUGHT". So he maybe hung it on the bones of iambic, it was his own tongue, and if you gave that as an example, you'd have to say, "Gee, they didn't have any relation at all, hardly" - but, I don't know - that's something that's scholarly (a scholar who really tried to find out would know - and I think in our town (here, Boulder), maybe someone here does. Yes?

    Student: Gerard Manley Hopkins, who was a British poet..talked a lot about stress in poetry. There were two things he worked with, one he called "out-stress" and one he called "in-stress". The out-stress is the natural iambs...

    AG: Yes

    Student: ..but when you accent words to give them certain mean.ings, he calls that "In-stress", and it gives a dynamic to the line.

    AG: Where is his in-stress, actually?

    Student: It's...

    AG: A special accent or...

    Student: It's the meaningful human accents that you put on certain words or sounds in order to give them greater meaning.

    AG: Yeah, so he developed "sprung rhythm", or an odder..odder rhythm. Well, let's see what we've got by Hopkins and see what it sounds like aloud. There was one poem I always liked, "The Leaden Echo and the Golden Echo"which I don't find in this book. It was something about "be beginning to despair" ("The Leaden Echo") - "be beginning to despair".."age in age's wrinkles/ ruck and wrinked, tombs and worms and winding sheets/ and tumbling to decay"? [Allen slightly mis-remembers - "Age and age's evils, hoar hair,/ Ruck and wrinkle, drooping, dying, death's worst, winding sheets, tombs and worms"] -  (It's sort of a funny  long, long breath, actually). 


    [Richard Burton reads Gerard Manley Hopkins' "The Leaden Echo and The Golden Echo"] 

    Let's read one of his set-pieces, "Pied Beauty" - [Allen begins reading Gerard Manley Hopkins' "Pied Beauty" - "Glory be to God for dappled things.." - (including his verse, of course - "dappled", sprung, from the body)]

    Student: Is that what happened? Did he write that with the accent marks? Sometimes he included  (with the poem) accent, the accent marks.

    AG: Yes. There are some, there are a few. There are a few special accent marks here. I'll count them. (To display) I'll chop them with my hand. [Allen resumes his reading of "Pied Beauty" through to the end - "Glory be to God for dappled things-/For skies of couple-colour as a brinded cow;/ For rose-moles all in stipple upon trout that swim;/Fresh- firecoal chesnut-falls; finches' wings;/ Landscapes plotted and pieced - fold, fallow ad plough:/ and all trades their gear and tackle and trim./  All things counter, original, spare, strange;/ Whatever is fickle, freckled (who knows how?)/With swift, slow, sweet, sour; adazzle dim;/ He fathers-forth whose beauty is past change/ Praise him."] - He had just two of them there - "all trades" he had marked - Want me to find one that has more of his markings?  (he had a little extra-special accent mark on top of some of the words)

    Well, a very beautiful thing (it's like one of the old (Thomas) Campionor (Edmund) Waller songs - "Spring and Fall - To A Young Child" [Allen reads Hopkins' poem, "Spring and Fall - To A Young Child" in its entirety - "Margaret are you grieving/Over Goldengrove unleaving?/ Leaves, like the things of man, you/With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?/ Ah! as the heart grows older/It will come to such sights colder/ By and by, nor spare a sigh/Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie;/And yet you will weep and know why./ Now no matter, child, the name:/Sorrow's springs are the same/Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed/ What heard of, ghost guessed:/It is the blight man was born for,/It is Margaret you mourn for"] - Actually, I don't understand his special count, his special accent marks, because in this - "And yet you will weep and know why" - "will" is italicized (it doesn't have a mark but it's just italicized to give the emphasis). His marks are for special emphasis? to read with special emphasis? - So it would be "Leaves, like the things of man, you/With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?" (and he has an accent mark over "like" , so he doesn't want "Leaves, like the things of man, you", he wants ""Leaves, like the things of man, you". So that's one way of doing it..one way of getting your own special intonation into it, your own natural speaking-voice, or whatever speaking-voice you want to use.

    Student: It sometimes seems - and Hopkins brings this up in a sense - that all the accents and un-accents are really pretty arbitrary. All these systems of  accents and unaccented. You could almost take an iambic pentameter and read it as if it were.. read it in another accent, and it would be just as good, in fact..

    AG: Yeah, sometimes. Except..

    Student: That's why it's confusing to try and write an accented poem in a certain form.

    AG: Well, unless you have a really good model in your head that you can rely on to give yu a real strict count, and an even count, and one that reappears over and over. That's why I like the (Thomas) Wyatt - that's why I kept laying on that Wyatt to you earlier, because it's one of the most perfect iambics -"My lute, awake! Perform the last/Labor that I and thou shall waste,/And end that I have now begun;/For when this song is sung and past,/My lute, be still, for I have done." - It's really even. And if you get that in your poems, you always have a reference-point for iambic (if you want to write iambic). Wyatt does write very perfect metered verse, and it's a good model if you're really interested in getting into it. Read a lot of that one poem and you'll get into it. Or - "Forget not yet the tried intent/ Of such a truth as I have meant/My great travail so gladly spent/ Forget not yet" - that's perfect, right-on, on-time. Wyatt is on-time. (Shakespeare is not on-time, in that sense, but it always is around the time, properly).
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